WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:06.140 The most popular Python project you've probably never heard of has 258,000 GitHub stars and merged 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:09.360 over 1,800 pull requests in a single week. 00:00:09.760 --> 00:00:13.260 It's Hermes, a self-hosted AI agent you program by just 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:14.000 talking to it, 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:17.740 and it never clocks out. It runs 24-7 on a box in your house, 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.080 wakes up whenever 00:00:19.080 --> 00:00:21.780 you need it, keeps things like your YouTube channel in sync, 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:23.900 and has your morning briefing ready for 00:00:24.040 --> 00:00:26.440 your up. Mine started with a few config files. 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:27.200 A few months later, 00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:29.340 it's 16,000 files of skills, 00:00:29.460 --> 00:00:29.820 memories, 00:00:30.020 --> 00:00:31.580 and tools it built for itself. 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:33.120 All the while, I wasn't watching it. 00:00:33.860 --> 00:00:37.060 Jeff Triplett joins me to explore this honestly weird, 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:38.460 but kind of amazing world. 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:39.060 And yes, 00:00:39.480 --> 00:00:41.360 Hermes has a few words for you too at the end. 00:00:41.700 --> 00:00:44.160 This is Talk Python To Me, episode 567, 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:45.760 recorded October 6th, 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:46.940 2026. 00:01:03.820 --> 00:01:08.140 Welcome to Talk Python To Me, the number one Python podcast for developers and data scientists. 00:01:08.660 --> 00:01:10.060 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. 00:01:10.240 --> 00:01:13.980 I'm a PSF fellow who's been coding for over 25 years. 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:15.680 Let's connect on social media. 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:18.320 You'll find me and Talk Python on Mastodon, Bluesky, 00:01:18.700 --> 00:01:19.140 and X. 00:01:19.390 --> 00:01:21.320 The social links are all in your show notes. 00:01:21.740 --> 00:01:24.680 You can find over 10 years of past episodes at 00:01:24.800 --> 00:01:25.600 Talk Python.fm. 00:01:25.780 --> 00:01:29.040 And if you want to be part of the show, you can join our recording live streams. 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:33.260 That's right. We live stream the raw uncut version of each episode on YouTube. 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:34.300 Just visit 00:01:34.440 --> 00:01:38.280 Talk Python.fm slash YouTube to see the schedule of upcoming events. 00:01:38.470 --> 00:01:39.620 Be sure to subscribe there and 00:01:39.630 --> 00:01:42.160 press the bell so you'll get notified anytime we're recording. 00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:43.820 Before we jump into the show, 00:01:43.860 --> 00:01:48.240 I want to just give a quick shout out to a new open source project that I released last week, 00:01:48.819 --> 00:01:49.740 Chameleon RS. 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:51.960 It's the Chameleon template language, 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:54.460 but modernized. I rewrote it in Rust. 00:01:54.780 --> 00:01:55.900 It's several times faster. 00:01:56.170 --> 00:01:59.980 It comes with built-in partial support for things like HTMX, 00:02:00.260 --> 00:02:02.360 and it fully supports free-threaded Python. 00:02:02.950 --> 00:02:04.760 Plus, it extends the language for built-in 00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:05.440 markdown support. 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:07.320 And because it's written in Rust, 00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:10.439 it's 50 times faster than the common Python 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:11.940 Markdown libraries you're probably using. 00:02:12.220 --> 00:02:13.780 If you use the Chameleon language, 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:14.820 you definitely want 00:02:14.820 --> 00:02:15.360 to check it out. 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.680 Just go to mkennedy.codes.com. 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:21.440 It's been powering Talk Python and the courses 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:27.720 for a week now. The entire website is 20% faster and migrating is just an import statement and a 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:28.720 single line of code. 00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:32.760 I hope many of you out there find some cool use cases for Chameleon RS. 00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:34.220 Hey, Jeff. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:34.860 Hey, Michael. 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:36.760 Awesome to have you on Talk Python again. 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:37.780 Yeah, I appreciate it. 00:02:39.940 --> 00:02:40.420 It's 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:45.020 topic than Django this time, I guess. So that'll be fun to talk about Django AI and all the things. 00:02:45.200 --> 00:02:48.000 Yeah, we're going to do. I didn't know Django AI was a product. 00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:49.280 No, it's Django and AI. 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.460 We're going to talk about some amazing stuff and it certainly does apply to Django, but it applies 00:02:53.900 --> 00:02:54.620 more broadly. 00:02:55.020 --> 00:02:58.440 I feel like this episode is a little bit more of a Tinkerer's episode, 00:02:59.260 --> 00:03:03.740 a hacker's in the original sense of hacking than maybe straight web development. 00:03:03.940 --> 00:03:04.340 What do you think? 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:05.380 Yeah, I think so. 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:07.800 Not sure how you want to get into it, 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:10.400 but I know one of the topics we want 00:03:10.420 --> 00:03:12.240 And Hermes is an open source, 00:03:12.540 --> 00:03:13.820 self-hostable AI agent, 00:03:14.160 --> 00:03:15.580 which is probably a little different 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:19.560 than how a lot of Python people are going to run applications and do stuff. 00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:22.080 Normally you're writing an application that you run locally, 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:22.840 or maybe you're going to 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:23.480 run it in the cloud. 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:29.120 So you're looking at Python libraries where Hermes is kind of a server that you run and 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:31.020 you can connect to it from your phone or desktop. 00:03:31.540 --> 00:03:35.940 And it just kind of does things for you that you tell it what to do or ask it to invent 00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:36.220 things. 00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:38.140 What's your experience with it? 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:40.760 My experience is this is some wild, wild times. 00:03:40.940 --> 00:03:43.560 There's like really weird stuff and we're going to get into it. 00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:46.580 And it's going to be weird, but it's pretty fascinating. 00:03:47.020 --> 00:03:47.120 You know, 00:03:47.660 --> 00:03:48.300 everyone out there, 00:03:48.760 --> 00:03:49.640 I mean, as Mabel brought, 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:55.740 almost everyone out there is experienced with agentic coding tools like Claude Code and Cursor. 00:03:56.060 --> 00:04:00.600 But I want to just take a moment and kind of really put this into the right box that it belongs in. 00:04:00.920 --> 00:04:02.060 Because this is very different. 00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:03.640 The word agent, 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:04.420 agentic, 00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:06.500 all of these things is just thrown around all over the place. 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.040 I don't know. Do you have a better term than agents? 00:04:09.630 --> 00:04:11.900 But it's a very different box than these coding agents. 00:04:12.260 --> 00:04:12.560 Yeah. 00:04:12.920 --> 00:04:16.920 I mean, I think it's a true agent in that it's always running and it does have a loop. 00:04:17.320 --> 00:04:20.200 And you can tell it what that loop is. So I think by default, 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:23.320 Hermes wants to wake up like every 30 minutes in OpenClaw. 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.960 But you can tell it like, I want you every day to do something for me. 00:04:27.280 --> 00:04:31.440 Like I have it do kind of a daily briefing where I've got two kids. I'm taking them to school. 00:04:31.820 --> 00:04:32.780 We live in Kansas. 00:04:33.100 --> 00:04:34.360 It could snow one day. 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:36.080 It could be 100 degrees the next day. 00:04:36.400 --> 00:04:37.380 Usually not that close together. 00:04:37.940 --> 00:04:38.040 But, 00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:39.700 you know, like I have it look at the weather, 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:40.500 look at the schedule. 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.460 Tell me if I need to put my daughter who's four in a jacket or a coat. 00:04:45.020 --> 00:04:47.360 My son wants to wear shorts until it's 30 degrees outside. 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.520 So I at least need to get him in a jacket or coat, 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:50.240 depending on the time. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:51.600 Want to know if it's going to rain. 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.000 Kind of want to know what's on my schedule. 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:54.140 Also want to know, 00:04:54.380 --> 00:04:54.540 like, 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.160 is there going to be a football game or basketball game? 00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:59.860 Because the University of Kansas is three blocks from my house. 00:05:00.140 --> 00:05:02.260 I kind of need to know what to prepare for in my neighborhood. 00:05:02.670 --> 00:05:04.060 Like, should I drop my car off early? 00:05:04.380 --> 00:05:05.880 Want to know if the kids have sporting events. 00:05:06.130 --> 00:05:10.180 And it does a beautiful job just kind of creating this like daily report for me every day that 00:05:10.180 --> 00:05:14.560 I can just read very quickly in the morning and just kind of have a feel for what's going to go on. 00:05:14.820 --> 00:05:17.380 And then you get into lots of absurd things too, 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.780 like having to do transcriptions from videos 00:05:20.340 --> 00:05:22.540 or having to follow up with you or remind you. 00:05:22.700 --> 00:05:24.580 Kind of like with the phone where you say, 00:05:24.830 --> 00:05:27.620 you know, Siri, give me a reminder at X time a day. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.980 But this actually works well compared to like, 00:05:30.330 --> 00:05:31.820 I think what we try to do with our phones. 00:05:32.020 --> 00:05:32.240 Yeah. 00:05:32.630 --> 00:05:35.880 The reminders actually used to work pretty well, but with the new Siri, 00:05:36.140 --> 00:05:37.260 they're just so much. 00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:40.100 The new Siri is just not a, it's not a go for me. 00:05:40.520 --> 00:05:46.620 So I'm appreciating my Hermes set up way more even than I did before because it continues to work. 00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:46.960 Yeah. 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:52.160 It's really interesting technology because I think sometimes when people talk about like skills, 00:05:52.790 --> 00:05:54.380 they think here's a markdown file that's, 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.600 you know, on my computer and Hermes is kind of built on skills. 00:05:57.900 --> 00:05:59.560 But skills are basically to-do lists. 00:05:59.820 --> 00:06:02.240 And so if you want to have it do something more deterministic, 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:03.940 because everybody says 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:06.720 agents are non-deterministic and LLMs in general, 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:08.800 they're non-deterministic by default. 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:12.300 Skills are kind of a way that you give them a set of instructions. 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:14.360 Agents are really good at following instructions. 00:06:14.700 --> 00:06:15.960 And then you also work with memories. 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:17.560 Memories are facts. 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:19.880 If I tell my agent, my name is Jeff or it's Michael, 00:06:20.060 --> 00:06:21.320 it's always going to remember that 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:22.560 and it's going to know how to refer to me. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:27.680 That's also why it works when you describe like, my family is four people and we have 00:06:27.700 --> 00:06:32.100 And I've even used Hermes before to look at the weather to tell me like, 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:34.120 should I water my lawn today? 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:38.600 Or when is the ideal time to fertilize since last time I put seed down? 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:39.700 Being in the Midwest, 00:06:39.950 --> 00:06:41.320 I also live right by the Kansas River. 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:43.860 We have no problems with water whatsoever in our area. 00:06:44.520 --> 00:06:48.620 Unlike maybe California or certain parts of the country that have more restrictions. 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:50.320 And yeah, it's just amazing to wait back. 00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:51.820 You can water whenever you want, but you've got to do it. 00:06:52.010 --> 00:06:53.360 You still want to be optimal about it, right? 00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:55.760 I don't want to do it when it's going to rain the same day, 00:06:55.940 --> 00:06:56.040 right? 00:06:56.140 --> 00:06:59.020 So there's just a lot of wild stuff you can give it. 00:06:59.150 --> 00:07:02.760 Like I used to use a service that I'd like pay a subscription for every year and they'd 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:05.840 send me fertilizer for my lawn and tell me when to put the fertilizer on it. 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.020 And I used that for years, but they always sent me like two or three times as much product 00:07:10.170 --> 00:07:10.700 as what I needed. 00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:12.840 So I finally stopped using it. 00:07:13.130 --> 00:07:16.900 And then I grabbed all my PDFs for the types of fertilizer in the product and I gave it 00:07:16.960 --> 00:07:19.080 to Hermes and I had it come up with a lawn schedule. 00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:21.540 And one thing it told me is that under their schedule, 00:07:21.970 --> 00:07:23.500 they have you putting new seed down 00:07:23.590 --> 00:07:25.000 and then fertilizing two weeks later. 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:28.420 you really should wait three to four weeks or you're just frying the grass seed that you just 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:28.720 planted. 00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:31.180 And so it's like strange insights like that, 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.000 that I know how to put seed on the ground, 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.560 right? I know how to water it. I kind of know how to do fertilizer. 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:36.200 Like you attach, 00:07:36.500 --> 00:07:38.060 attach it to like, you know, your spigot or whatever, 00:07:38.380 --> 00:07:39.340 and you water your lawn. 00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:40.120 But like, 00:07:40.420 --> 00:07:44.180 there's just a lot of information there that I just find to be like truly fascinating when you 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.460 have the whole internet that you can use to get information from. 00:07:47.060 --> 00:07:48.460 100%. We're going to go through 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:55.060 some really cool use cases as well. I do want to maybe start by doing a survey of different 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:56.200 that are out there. 00:07:56.450 --> 00:07:59.020 So we talked about Hermes. We're going to come back to Hermes because you 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:03.800 and I are both fans of Hermes and have done a lot with it. But maybe the one that really kicked it 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:04.820 off was Open Claw, 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:05.440 would you say? 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:07.800 I think so. That's the first one for me, at least. 00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:08.860 Peter, 00:08:09.010 --> 00:08:10.200 I don't know his last name. 00:08:10.470 --> 00:08:12.220 Actually, I know his last name. I'm just not going to say it. 00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:16.740 He kind of caught my interest right around Christmas last year over the holidays. 00:08:17.090 --> 00:08:17.200 And 00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:18.300 then somewhere around January, 00:08:18.550 --> 00:08:18.900 I thought, 00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:21.620 man, I'm the last person to pay attention to this thing. 00:08:21.820 --> 00:08:23.440 And this is probably four or five names ago, 00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:31.000 but I installed it on a Saturday and then put it on a spare Mac mini before back when Mac minis were like $299 and they couldn't give them away. 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.039 Now I think they're what, like $899 or $1,000 or something like that. 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:35.300 Ridiculous. 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:35.560 Yeah, 00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:36.060 it's ridiculous. 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:39.719 And so I went with my family down to the library after installing it. 00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:46.140 And so my kids were picking up books and I'm good at the library for 10, 15 minutes and I'm just kind of waiting for them to have fun and finish up. 00:08:46.420 --> 00:08:50.740 And so then I was on my phone saying like, hey, can you do this to a website or can you take a screenshot? 00:08:51.300 --> 00:08:54.240 And then I knew I had a bunch of domains that I just had parked forever. 00:08:54.660 --> 00:08:55.020 And I'm like, 00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:57.660 why don't you go ahead and make websites for all like five or six of these? 00:08:58.120 --> 00:08:59.440 And it just kind of took off. 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:00.980 And then 30 minutes later, 00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:03.100 it's like sending me links to them and screenshots. 00:09:03.510 --> 00:09:04.600 They were all on my Mac. 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:06.420 But I'm like, this is incredible technology. 00:09:06.800 --> 00:09:09.460 But for me, that was kind of the first one that I had ever played with. 00:09:10.040 --> 00:09:12.580 It still is on that same Mac Mini from a year ago. 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:14.100 I never bought a Mac Mini for it. 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.580 But it sounded like a crazy thing to do at the time. 00:09:16.730 --> 00:09:20.680 And I don't know that it sounds as bad anymore other than I don't want to spend 900 bucks for a Mac Mini. 00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:23.920 but I kind of regret not getting an extra one for $2.99 though. That was a deal. 00:09:24.280 --> 00:09:25.160 Yeah. You could have just sold, 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:28.640 you could have become a wholesaler of Mac minis and just retired. 00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:29.420 It would have been incredible. 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.180 I think since then everybody kind of has one of these now, 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:34.520 like you've got Anthropic. 00:09:34.680 --> 00:09:36.240 I think they have one. Is that, are they dot? 00:09:36.540 --> 00:09:37.060 Is that the latest? 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.340 No, OpenAI is dot. I believe Anthropics. 00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:41.880 It's not really though. 00:09:42.579 --> 00:09:43.600 It's co-work. 00:09:43.760 --> 00:09:44.160 That's right. 00:09:44.300 --> 00:09:44.640 Co-work. 00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:45.320 You know, I, 00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:46.520 this is the thing that we gotta, 00:09:46.780 --> 00:09:50.180 I think we've got to be a little bit explicit about for folks. 00:09:50.680 --> 00:09:53.060 and help them understand the different angles. 00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:54.880 It's like, co-work is super cool, 00:09:55.380 --> 00:09:59.920 but to me, co-work is halfway from an LLM to these agents. 00:10:00.180 --> 00:10:01.820 It's not all the way there, 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:02.220 right? 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.160 I can create these scheduled things that run in co-work 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:07.860 and I can say, "Hey, every hour call this webhook 00:10:07.900 --> 00:10:09.680 and then tell me if something happened." 00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:12.940 But there's also so much more tool use 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.440 that these things like Hermes and OpenClaw have, 00:10:15.760 --> 00:10:16.560 which is really interesting 00:10:16.820 --> 00:10:19.100 and some very interesting self-improvement. 00:10:19.880 --> 00:10:20.840 You know, you hear about RSI, 00:10:21.190 --> 00:10:22.920 the recursive self-improvement, 00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:24.720 not the carpal tunnel version 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:25.380 these days, 00:10:25.800 --> 00:10:26.580 because we don't type anymore. 00:10:26.670 --> 00:10:27.160 We just talk. 00:10:27.920 --> 00:10:30.900 But yeah, so I don't know how to, I'm not sure if you're thinking of co-work. 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:32.240 Yeah, I guess it was co-work. 00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.820 I've not found these to be as useful. 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:38.080 I find them to be useful for other things like coding, 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:40.000 quick chats and stuff to like 00:10:40.300 --> 00:10:43.160 kind of replace the search engine in my mind, I guess. 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:47.260 I think that between Hermes and OpenClaw, 00:10:47.680 --> 00:10:48.680 there's more personality. 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.040 They're kind of more like they came to your devices first. 00:10:52.300 --> 00:10:57.040 So like you could run it in your Slack or your Telegram or your Discord or maybe even Signal. 00:10:57.560 --> 00:10:59.260 Some of them even work with like iMessage, 00:10:59.420 --> 00:11:00.720 even though that's probably a hack. 00:11:01.540 --> 00:11:03.260 They kind of came to you because, 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.540 you know, they were you were hosting them yourself. 00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:08.320 And so you needed some conduit or way to talk to it. 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:11.560 So they kind of had the like support where you were by necessity. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:18.860 Where I find that like Claude and OpenAI's codex or ChatGPT, I guess, and they need to work on their names. 00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:20.760 There's like eight names for every product using. 00:11:21.780 --> 00:11:21.900 You know, 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:23.640 they tend to work off of their apps. 00:11:23.930 --> 00:11:26.760 So if you have the app installed on your iPhone or Android or on your desktop, 00:11:26.930 --> 00:11:27.920 then you have access to them. 00:11:28.130 --> 00:11:30.860 I still prefer the CLI for running those tools, 00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:32.360 especially for doing code stuff. 00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:33.240 But like, 00:11:33.570 --> 00:11:36.620 and I don't know, I think now maybe Claude has the ability to connect to Slack. 00:11:37.030 --> 00:11:39.000 And they're slowly kind of catching up and saying, 00:11:39.310 --> 00:11:41.820 you know, here's alternative ways for teams to work with them. 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:42.900 But that agency, 00:11:43.850 --> 00:11:45.420 the fact that they're kind of designed to, 00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:48.360 you know, have schedules built in to work up. 00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:50.800 There's just a lot of weird personality in them. 00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:53.180 Like Hermes even ships with a bunch of batteries. 00:11:53.540 --> 00:11:55.180 Like I think it can run like a Minecraft server 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:56.300 by default and stuff. 00:11:56.560 --> 00:11:57.980 I don't find that to be super useful, 00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:59.280 but apparently enough people did 00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:00.860 that they decided that like by default, 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:02.440 this can run your Minecraft server. 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:02.900 Yeah, 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:04.000 that's an interesting one. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:05.200 But you know, I guess it's, 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.560 it is a bit of an indicator where this does. 00:12:07.940 --> 00:12:10.360 Like Claude, when Claude Cowork runs, 00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:12.920 it generally runs at Claude. 00:12:13.260 --> 00:12:14.360 And I don't know about Dots. 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:15.480 That's the new one. 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:17.400 This is the OpenAI Dots. 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:18.580 I think it's kind of similar. 00:12:19.020 --> 00:12:20.620 There's MetaMuse, which is also, 00:12:20.750 --> 00:12:22.720 these are, Dots and Muse are the two ones 00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:24.020 that really just came out. 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:25.340 And Muse is interesting. 00:12:25.470 --> 00:12:26.220 I haven't used it, 00:12:26.420 --> 00:12:28.380 but you actually get a virtual server, 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:30.320 like a $5 server or something 00:12:30.490 --> 00:12:32.280 as part of using Muse. 00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:33.440 And that's where it runs. 00:12:33.900 --> 00:12:35.940 Whereas things like Hermes and OpenClaw, 00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:37.060 at least traditionally, 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.500 at least for me, run on my computer. 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:41.720 Now that might sound scary to people. 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.340 So mine runs on a Docker container 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.480 with a very limited set of folders 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.240 over to it, not just full access to my whole computer, 00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:50.520 right? 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:52.440 But I think that's one of the big differences. 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.040 'Cause once it's running on your computer, 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:55.700 it has all these different capabilities, 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:56.060 right? 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.020 It's just like, well, what tools are on this computer 00:12:58.240 --> 00:12:59.040 or in this Docker image? 00:12:59.260 --> 00:13:00.140 And if you don't have one, 00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:01.500 like, well, can we install Chrome? 00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:02.580 That would make my life better. 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:04.280 Like, sure, go install Chrome, I don't care. 00:13:04.540 --> 00:13:07.400 I've fully given my Hermes my Mac mini at my house. 00:13:07.700 --> 00:13:08.720 And so it can run Chrome, 00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:09.920 it can like do stuff. 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:13.360 I do limit as far as like what iCloud is connected to it. 00:13:13.560 --> 00:13:15.100 That way I don't have to worry about putting anything 00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:16.560 on that machine that it could potentially, 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:17.180 you know, 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.220 share or do something with it that I don't want to take a chance on. 00:13:20.540 --> 00:13:21.680 So I just kind of lucked out, 00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:22.600 had that machine anyways, 00:13:23.020 --> 00:13:23.460 plus a laptop. 00:13:24.040 --> 00:13:27.040 So Hermes runs on it. I don't run Hermes on my work machine 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:32.000 just because I don't want any client files or anything to ever be, I don't want it to have the 00:13:32.180 --> 00:13:34.940 option to be able to like poke around or do something with it. 00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:36.320 So I'm a little looser with 00:13:36.420 --> 00:13:39.180 mine, but it's because I have that dedicated box that can just live on. 00:13:39.330 --> 00:13:40.240 And then I've got several 00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:41.740 like, they're called orange pies, 00:13:42.260 --> 00:13:44.020 but they're kind of like a better raspberry pie. 00:13:44.350 --> 00:13:45.140 I popped up a few 00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:49.500 Hermes on those as well to play with because they're tiny and they're just fine. It's just 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:50.900 any Linux box would work too. 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:52.640 Orange pie. I've not heard of orange pie, 00:13:53.060 --> 00:13:53.680 although yeah, 00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:54.440 it looks very interesting. 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.940 I've got kind of the cheapy run there is one of them. 00:13:58.420 --> 00:14:00.740 This portion of talk Python to me is brought to you by, 00:14:00.940 --> 00:14:01.100 well, 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:01.500 you, 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:03.600 I recently added a membership 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:04.880 program to talk Python. 00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:09.000 One of the cornerstones of that program is live tech talks. 00:14:09.340 --> 00:14:10.280 So let me just 00:14:10.420 --> 00:14:13.080 take a moment and tell you about our first upcoming live tech talk. 00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:14.540 It's presented by me, 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:18.040 The subject is owning and running your own Python infrastructure. 00:14:18.780 --> 00:14:22.480 You may know I've tried to adopt a no-nonsense approach to running Talk Python 00:14:22.570 --> 00:14:23.600 and all the related apps, 00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:24.380 the podcasts, 00:14:24.540 --> 00:14:25.260 the courses sites, 00:14:25.540 --> 00:14:28.000 the APIs for the mobile apps, and the MCP servers, 00:14:28.220 --> 00:14:28.620 and much more. 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:32.680 This talk is a peek behind the curtain on how I run all of these 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.220 for under $100 a month, 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.060 including over 10 terabytes of traffic per month. 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:39.520 But even if you heard me talk about this topic before, 00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:41.720 I have a true surprise for you. 00:14:42.040 --> 00:14:45.600 I'm going to share something really wild that I've changed over to in the past few weeks, 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:47.060 and you won't want to miss it. 00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:50.560 Just visit talkpython.fm/meetups for the details 00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:51.800 and to add it to your calendar. 00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:53.420 The event is on Wednesday, 00:14:53.640 --> 00:14:55.200 November 4th at 10am Pacific, 00:14:55.800 --> 00:14:59.220 and it'll be available for replay after that to all members as well. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.140 Membership starts at just 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.620 $5 a month, and it really helps support the show. 00:15:03.890 --> 00:15:06.260 So become a member and get access to top tier 00:15:06.410 --> 00:15:07.900 live tech events and much more. 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.160 Visit talkpython.fm/meetups to get started today. 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:15.900 they're super neat like i said they're like a raspberry pi they make all different shapes and 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:21.440 sizes of them and they are just so much faster what a raspberry pi is they're not as underpowered 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:28.060 so this uh brings up a pretty interesting angle they do run code but for their actual real 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:33.840