Michael Kennedy: You've built your FastAPI app. It's running great locally. Now you want to share it with the world.
Michael Kennedy: But then reality hits. Containers, load balancers, HTTPS certificates, cloud consoles with 200
Michael Kennedy: options. What if deploying was just one command? That's exactly what Sebastian Ramirez and the
Michael Kennedy: FastAPI cloud team are building. On this episode, we sit down with Sebastian, Patrick Arminio,
Michael Kennedy: Savannah Ostrowski, and Jonathan Ewald to go inside FastAPI cloud, explore what it means
Michael Kennedy: to build a Pythonic cloud and dig into how this commercial venture is actually making FastAPI,
Michael Kennedy: the open source project, stronger than ever. This is Talk Python To Me, episode 536, recorded January
13th, 2026. Talk Python To Me, yeah, we ready to roll. Upgrading the code, no fear of getting old.
Async in the air, new frameworks in sight, geeky rap on deck. Quark crew, it's time to unite. We
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Michael Kennedy: All right, let's jump in.
Michael Kennedy: Hello, everyone.
Michael Kennedy: Sebastian, Patrick, Savannah, and Jonathan.
Michael Kennedy: Awesome to have you all here.
Michael Kennedy: Excited to talk about FastAPI Cloud.
Michael Kennedy: Welcome.
Michael Kennedy: Yes.
Savannah Ostrowski: Thanks for having me.
Savannah Ostrowski: Thank you.
Savannah Ostrowski: We're also ahead, Mike.
Savannah Ostrowski: What a project.
Michael Kennedy: It's been going on for a while.
Michael Kennedy: I've heard stuff from Sebastian that maybe something was brewing and all these things,
Michael Kennedy: but not too long ago, you all announced it.
Michael Kennedy: And I heard that FastAPI, some people have been using it recently.
Michael Kennedy: Some of the surveys show that some people use it for websites.
Michael Kennedy: I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: Rumors.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Rumors.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, my gosh.
Michael Kennedy: I mean, congratulations on that.
Michael Kennedy: But before we dive into FastAPI and FastAPI Cloud, let's just do a quick introduction.
Michael Kennedy: Who are you?
Michael Kennedy: We'll just go around the Brady Bunch squares of our live stream here and start with Sebastian.
Michael Kennedy: You've been on the show a few times.
Michael Kennedy: In fact, you've been on the show just recently for a really fun episode, Sebastian.
Sebastian Ramirez: Who are you?
Sebastian Ramirez: In real, that was super fun.
Sebastian Ramirez: So, hello, everyone.
Sebastian Ramirez: I'm Sebastian Ramirez, or Tiangulo.
Sebastian Ramirez: I created FastAPI.
Sebastian Ramirez: That is this Python framework for building web APIs and backend.
Michael Kennedy: In case you've been living in a hole and haven't done any Python for 10 years.
Michael Kennedy: You also are famous for really pointing out the ridiculousness of modern tech recruiting.
Michael Kennedy: You know what I'm talking about?
Sebastian Ramirez: Yeah, you know, like it's fun.
Sebastian Ramirez: This is probably the thing that I am known for.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's for writing a tweet saying, yeah, what was it?
Sebastian Ramirez: that I saw a job asking for five years of experience in FastAPI,
Sebastian Ramirez: and I only had 2.5 since I created the thing.
Sebastian Ramirez: So you didn't qualify for the FastAPI job?
Sebastian Ramirez: I didn't qualify for that, yeah.
Sebastian Ramirez: And then the funny thing is, you know, like people sometimes,
Sebastian Ramirez: even people in Python itself, and tell me like,
Sebastian Ramirez: oh, wait, like you're, and I say like, oh, yeah,
Sebastian Ramirez: I created this thing called FastAPI.
Sebastian Ramirez: Oh, wait, okay, so what is FastAPI?
Sebastian Ramirez: Oh, wait, you are the guy from the meme,
Sebastian Ramirez: the meme about FastAPI.
Sebastian Ramirez: Are you serious?
Sebastian Ramirez: Yeah, you know, like suddenly that is super important that I am the guy for the meme about FastAPI.
Sebastian Ramirez: Not the guy from FastAPI, the guy from the meme.
Michael Kennedy: Oh my gosh, I saw you on TikTok. It was amazing.
Sebastian Ramirez: It was a live achievement. I wrote a viral tweet. So yeah, nice to meet you all.
Michael Kennedy: You know what? Sometimes your moment in the sun is not the one you expected.
Michael Kennedy: No, congratulations on how good FastAPI is.
Michael Kennedy: On the tweet.
Michael Kennedy: Exactly. You really nailed it. Patrick, welcome to the show.
Patrick Arminio: Nice to be here. Yeah, I'm Patrick.
Patrick Arminio: I guess the main thing I'm kind of known for in the community is like this library called
Patrick Arminio: Storary, which is similar to FastAPI, but instead of REST is for GraphQL.
Patrick Arminio: Other than that, I help organize PyCon Italy and I used to also do EuroPython as well,
Patrick Arminio: but I stopped because of way too many things.
Patrick Arminio: Yeah, that's pretty much me.
Patrick Arminio: How do you see GraphQL these days?
Patrick Arminio: Is it still popular?
Patrick Arminio: I think it's mostly popular in the enterprises, unfortunately.
Patrick Arminio: I'm a bit, to be honest, I'm a bit annoyed about the companies that do tooling around
Patrick Arminio: GraphQL because I don't know, I feel like they're not really pushing it forward. They're just,
Patrick Arminio: I don't know, trying to work with enterprises and that's it. Or maybe people think to AI.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah. It feels a little bit like the soap, soap, wisdom, XML, modern version. Savannah.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: You like tapping out of being an organizer for EuroPython is like, you know, the classic
Savannah Ostrowski: open source oversubscribed doing all the things very relatable.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: Yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: But yeah, I'm Savannah.
Savannah Ostrowski: What can I say?
Savannah Ostrowski: I am on the Python Steering Council for 2096, which is very exciting.
Michael Kennedy: Congratulations.
Savannah Ostrowski: Oh, thank you.
Savannah Ostrowski: I am also the release manager for the upcoming version of Python, Python 3.16.
Savannah Ostrowski: And so that'll kick off later this year, which is really cool and very exciting.
Savannah Ostrowski: I work on CPython stuff, the JIT, arg parse, basically whatever needs help.
Savannah Ostrowski: It's kind of where you'll find me.
Michael Kennedy: Awesome.
Michael Kennedy: Congratulations on the Steering Council.
Michael Kennedy: And yeah, that's a lot of cool stuff.
Michael Kennedy: Hopefully we don't get a Python 4.0 right after 3.16
Michael Kennedy: because then your job will never end, is what I've learned.
Savannah Ostrowski: Yeah, yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: Benjamin Peterson, Python 2.7 forever kind of situation.
Savannah Ostrowski: Yeah, yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: I mean, release management is still, I mean, it's still quite a commitment.
Savannah Ostrowski: It's like seven-ish years when you think about all the staggered releases
Savannah Ostrowski: because you're a release manager 2.0
Savannah Ostrowski: and then you have the five-year maintenance cycle.
Savannah Ostrowski: So yeah, it's Python forever is what I only said.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, it's probably not a fad.
Michael Kennedy: It's probably going to stick around, this Python thing.
Michael Kennedy: No, that's awesome.
Michael Kennedy: Congratulations.
Michael Kennedy: Also, cool with arg parse.
Michael Kennedy: I feel like that's making a strong comeback now that we have these AI things that can just put stuff together for us instead of like, oh, I need to depend on this library and that library.
Michael Kennedy: Like, I just need to take a few arguments and have a little help text.
Michael Kennedy: And it's like, well, you've already got this built-in thing.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, who knew?
Michael Kennedy: You know, people are like, oh, I didn't even know.
Michael Kennedy: I thought I used typer or click or something, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: There's, you know, the typers and clicks of the world.
Savannah Ostrowski: But sometimes you just want the simplest thing.
Savannah Ostrowski: And ArgParse is pretty great at that.
Savannah Ostrowski: Although it has many quirks that are probably and most definitely unfixable at this point.
Savannah Ostrowski: Because bugs are features when you have things that have been around as long as Python.
Savannah Ostrowski: But yeah, no, I mean, AI loves to write Python.
Savannah Ostrowski: I think it's like the language used the most, AI-generated code.
Michael Kennedy: I'll just say we live in weird times, very weird times.
Savannah Ostrowski: I would love a precedented time at some time.
Michael Kennedy: Exactly.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Can we just get the boring times?
Michael Kennedy: No, nothing interesting, please.
Michael Kennedy: What I said about GraphQL may sound like a bit of a smash, but I didn't mean it in a negative,
Michael Kennedy: super negative way anyway.
Michael Kennedy: Like it used to be all the enterprises were all about soap and wisdom and like subscribing
Michael Kennedy: your tooling.
Michael Kennedy: Please don't write me.
Michael Kennedy: I'm not trying to bash on your technology.
Michael Kennedy: All right.
Michael Kennedy: Jonathan, also welcome.
Michael Kennedy: Hi.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not nearly as famous as everyone else in this call.
Speaker 4: I'm more infamous internally at FastAPI Cloud, I would say, for a bunch of things.
Michael Kennedy: I've heard of emojis or something along the lines of line.
Speaker 4: One Mima way.
Speaker 4: You're just one Mima way.
Speaker 4: Just one Mima way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4: We keep piling them up internally.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I used to work with Patrick together for years, also on Craftia.
Speaker 4: Same library as him.
Speaker 4: That's how I know him.
Speaker 4: And that's why I, well, made a weird sound when you said soap.
Speaker 4: I've been with FastAPI Cloud since EuroPattern, actually, the last one.
Speaker 4: I promised Sebastian I would implement server-send events in FastAPI,
Speaker 4: and I haven't started with it yet at all, but somehow I'm still here.
Speaker 4: So that's great.
Sebastian Ramirez: Well, actually, yeah, and it was actually like a sneak peek, I guess.
Sebastian Ramirez: We already started having a bunch of chats and discussing what we do.
Sebastian Ramirez: Should we do it here? Should we do it there?
Sebastian Ramirez: What should we do?
Sebastian Ramirez: So like, yeah, it's something that is coming to FastAPI probably soon-ish.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like there was a lot of things that needed to happen before that.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like Patrick is slightly smiley, like, oh no, this is pressure.
Sebastian Ramirez: There were some things that needed to happen in FastAPI, as you know, dropping support for
Sebastian Ramirez: Pydantic version one or things like that, that just made the internal code so complex.
Sebastian Ramirez: And now that it's over, we can actually work more on improving performance, adding features
Sebastian Ramirez: and things like that.
Michael Kennedy: I definitely want to dive into how FastAPI Cloud has sort of influenced the whole FastAPI side of things.
Michael Kennedy: But I made aware that there is, in fact, an entire website, an entire website dedicated to the meme.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah. And out in the audience, we get, hey, everyone, is that the guy from the meme?
Michael Kennedy: And meme is greater than Nobel Prize.
Michael Kennedy: So, you know what?
Michael Kennedy: It may be true.
Sebastian Ramirez: I recognize the person saying, this is the guy from the Ming.
Savannah Ostrowski: He might be my husband.
Michael Kennedy: Incredible.
Michael Kennedy: All right, well, let's start with FastAPI Cloud,
Michael Kennedy: and then we'll bring it back around to the FastAPI.
Michael Kennedy: Let's talk origin story.
Michael Kennedy: So what is this FastAPI Cloud?
Michael Kennedy: Nice.
Sebastian Ramirez: So if you were looking at the FastAPI Labs website,
Sebastian Ramirez: that doesn't really show that much.
Sebastian Ramirez: If you click on the join the waiting list that takes you to the website for FastAPI Cloud,
Sebastian Ramirez: there we can see this is what we are building.
Sebastian Ramirez: This is the thing that we are doing.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's actually super simple.
Sebastian Ramirez: The funny thing is that the pitch, the explanation of the product is so short.
Sebastian Ramirez: So it's one command.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's FastAPI Deploy.
Sebastian Ramirez: You have a FastAPI app, you just hit FastAPI Deploy, and then it's on the cloud.
Sebastian Ramirez: We take care of everything.
Sebastian Ramirez: We build a thing, deploy it, handle HTTPS, auto-scaling, all this stuff.
Sebastian Ramirez: and then you can just like focus on building the application,
Sebastian Ramirez: building apps.
Sebastian Ramirez: The funny thing is that it's super short to explain,
Sebastian Ramirez: but then building it is so cold, Blake.
Michael Kennedy: I'm glad it's so short.
Michael Kennedy: So thanks for being here.
Michael Kennedy: That was a great show, y'all.
Michael Kennedy: Well, no, just kidding.
Michael Kennedy: I think it's a little bit like Jupyter Notebooks
Michael Kennedy: in that sense that like you all are taking one for the team
Michael Kennedy: so that other people can have a simple experience.
Michael Kennedy: Whereas, you know, it's like those Jupyter folks,
Michael Kennedy: they write tons of TypeScript and do all sorts of things
Michael Kennedy: that nobody wants to necessarily do in the data science space
Michael Kennedy: so that you can just drag your widgets around.
Michael Kennedy: You know what I mean?
Sebastian Ramirez: I think that is a great analogy.
Michael Kennedy: I feel like the deployment space, it's a bit of a mixed bag.
Michael Kennedy: And I've been really frustrated to the point such that I wrote a book about it,
Michael Kennedy: that I think about an alternative,
Michael Kennedy: that I think over the last five plus years,
Michael Kennedy: it's just trended towards a little more complex, a little more complex.
Michael Kennedy: could we just add one of these things?
Michael Kennedy: And oh, now we got these three.
Michael Kennedy: We need one more thing to like make sure those things are doing, you know what I mean?
Michael Kennedy: And it's just like, wow, why are there 200 choices in my console to use this?
Savannah Ostrowski: Which is like kind of funny, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Because I feel like a lot of these companies started with this, like,
Savannah Ostrowski: I don't want to understand all the ins and outs of all the infrastructure
Savannah Ostrowski: that comes with the cloud service provider.
Savannah Ostrowski: And that's really complicated to understand because I'm an app dev
Savannah Ostrowski: and I don't know anything about, you know, whatever, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Now we're like, I don't know, kind of slowly accumulating.
Savannah Ostrowski: complexity but i think one of the cool things about what we're building and i like i've worked
Savannah Ostrowski: on cloud tooling before is like this is like just spoke for python developers and i think that's like
Savannah Ostrowski: quite like unique in that like we are really trying to like bring the bleeding edge and like
Savannah Ostrowski: all the new tooling that people are using and making sure that we play well with like uv and
Savannah Ostrowski: like i think like the there's a lot of thought and care put into that by the team that's a super good
Michael Kennedy: point. I mean, I remember Azure came out with like, here's your platform as a service. You just
Michael Kennedy: upload your web app and we'll just take it and go. And now that thing is so complicated along with
Michael Kennedy: many, many others, right? It's not just them. It's you've got AWS, you've got Vercel. There's
Michael Kennedy: lots of things we could point at for, wow, there's a lot of options here, you know?
Sebastian Ramirez: And then there are a lot of tools and like, you know, like many tools and many companies are also
Sebastian Ramirez: like doing a great job at many of the things that they are doing. But in many cases, it's just so
Sebastian Ramirez: complex, it's so complicated.
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, like I was, I have always been so, what, so adamant, I think is the word, to
Sebastian Ramirez: just teaching people how to use the tools.
Sebastian Ramirez: I think I have the most documentation about how to deploy things on your own than any other
Sebastian Ramirez: framework.
Sebastian Ramirez: I have so much information.
Michael Kennedy: MARK MANDEL: I hear that all the time from people.
Michael Kennedy: They say one of the reasons they chose FastAPIs is because how clear the documentation
Michael Kennedy: was, you know?
Sebastian Ramirez: FRANCESC CAMPOY: And then the thing is, you know, like just learning all those concepts
Sebastian Ramirez: and learning all the stuff that needs to be learned
Sebastian Ramirez: just to deploy something,
Sebastian Ramirez: and then you barely have the minimum.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's like, this is just too much.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's too much complacency.
Sebastian Ramirez: I think for me, I guess personally,
Sebastian Ramirez: my analogy is that FastAPI Cloud
Sebastian Ramirez: is the equivalent of what FastAPI is
Sebastian Ramirez: to building web APIs and backend.
Sebastian Ramirez: You could do the same with any other framework.
Sebastian Ramirez: You could validate data.
Sebastian Ramirez: You could generate open API.
Sebastian Ramirez: You could have automatic docs,
Sebastian Ramirez: But you will probably have to do a lot of the wiring yourself and making sure that it's actually correct and that it doesn't explode, all that stuff.
Sebastian Ramirez: That is, you know, like we are trying to do a lot of that work for the final users.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, and I think it's great.
Michael Kennedy: I think it's really nice to just provide this on-ramp because, as you said at the opening, when I asked, you know, what the origin story is just FastAPI deploy.
Michael Kennedy: That solves so many stories.
Michael Kennedy: But I'm sure behind the scenes, what happens is just about as simple as that.
Michael Kennedy: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: About that.
Speaker 4: Some of us don't even get to write Python anymore to make all of this happen.
Speaker 4: So speaking about taking one for the team.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, that is taking one for a team, right?
Michael Kennedy: It is.
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Michael Kennedy: I really hope you enjoy this new app that I built.
Michael Kennedy: Let's save the internals for a little bit later.
Michael Kennedy: Maybe what we could do right now,
Michael Kennedy: Maybe we could do a bit of a walkthrough of just kind of what it's like to set up an app from scratch, right?
Michael Kennedy: Nice.
Michael Kennedy: I see that uv is here, which is, I've been certainly an advocate for uv in all sorts of deployment,
Michael Kennedy: but especially when you have like repeated build type of scenarios for like Docker,
Michael Kennedy: Docker Compose or Kubernetes or whatever, uv makes that stuff so much faster and so on.
Michael Kennedy: So who would like to be my guide that just kind of talks us through what it means to set up a new project here?
Patrick Arminio: I mean, there is like this really nice command that Savannah built, just FastAPI new,
Patrick Arminio: which I think is something like, I don't know, like super helpful.
Michael Kennedy: What does FastAPI new do?
Michael Kennedy: Like, is that kind of a cookie cutter-esque experience or what is it?
Patrick Arminio: Yes, exactly.
Patrick Arminio: At the moment, Onesco holds a super basic FastAPI application using uv.
Patrick Arminio: It also installs dependencies, creates a folder, everything that you need.
Patrick Arminio: In future, I think we're going to plan support for templates
Patrick Arminio: so you can build multiple kind of things as well.
Patrick Arminio: But for now, it's just basically just uv FastAPI new,
Patrick Arminio: sorry, uvx FastAPI new,
Patrick Arminio: and then that scaffolds the project for you.
Patrick Arminio: I don't know if you want to try it live or...
Michael Kennedy: No, go ahead.
Michael Kennedy: Just, I would think it might disrupt you.
Michael Kennedy: Just let's talk us through it.
Speaker 4: It could work.
Speaker 4: I'm just going to put that out there.
Michael Kennedy: I'll tell you the most insane,
Michael Kennedy: like let's do that live on the podcast experience.
Michael Kennedy: I'm pretty sure, yeah, this is definitely the most insane.
Michael Kennedy: I had Matthew Rocklin on from Coiled, and those guys are all about like, hey, we're going to scale up like a bunch of available servers for you, right?
Michael Kennedy: So that you can do your data science.
Michael Kennedy: Like I want to do some ML thing, and it needs 500 servers.
Michael Kennedy: So during the podcast, he's, oh, let me just spin up 2,000 EC2 instances.
Michael Kennedy: Hold on.
Michael Kennedy: And then we ran some code on it during the show.
Michael Kennedy: And he's like, oh, let's try that on ARM.
Michael Kennedy: And then spin up another 2,000 on ARM Linux machines.
Michael Kennedy: I'm like, okay, that's nuts.
Michael Kennedy: But let's just.
Michael Kennedy: That's a lot of power.
Michael Kennedy: So I was impressed, but Patrick, sorry, I kind of did realty there.
Patrick Arminio: Let's talk through it.
Patrick Arminio: Yeah, so you do uvx FastAPI app, FastAPI new, then you specify the name of the application.
Patrick Arminio: And that's almost there.
Patrick Arminio: You just need one more command to deploy, which is FastAPI deploy.
Patrick Arminio: The first time it's going to ask you to log in or join the waiting list if you haven't been invited yet.
Patrick Arminio: It's still in beta.
Patrick Arminio: And then you follow the steps.
Patrick Arminio: So like FastAPI deploy, log in, decide the team.
Patrick Arminio: If you have multiple teams, design the application name,
Patrick Arminio: and then you wait a few seconds and the application is going to be live.
Savannah Ostrowski: And just to be clear, FastAPI new is not required if you already have a FastAPI app.
Savannah Ostrowski: If you've already written your own code and you have your application,
Savannah Ostrowski: you can just go right into logging in and deploying.
Savannah Ostrowski: This is just so that if you're starting something new,
Savannah Ostrowski: you don't have to do any thinking about all the right things that need to be there.
Savannah Ostrowski: So this is more of a greenfield application.
Savannah Ostrowski: I'm bootstrapping a project.
Michael Kennedy: Right, right, because you want to have the best structure.
Michael Kennedy: Now, it uses uv.
Michael Kennedy: It is nodes required.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, I was going to say, do I have to use the uv project management type of thing?
Michael Kennedy: Do I have to use the uv.lock files and uv add uv sync?
Michael Kennedy: Can I do requirements.txt?
Michael Kennedy: What's the story there?
Patrick Arminio: Yes, so we support uv with uv lock.
Patrick Arminio: We also support the, forget the name, the other, the PyLock file.
Patrick Arminio: And we also support plain requirements.txt.
Patrick Arminio: And maybe something else, I don't know, Jonathan, can you?
Michael Kennedy: PyLock's pretty new, right?
Michael Kennedy: I think Brett Cannon just got that out pretty recently, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Brett was pretty excited.
Michael Kennedy: I know.
Savannah Ostrowski: Implemented that.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, was he?
Michael Kennedy: Okay, I'm sure he was.
Michael Kennedy: That's awesome.
Michael Kennedy: He put years of work into that.
Sebastian Ramirez: And he also said that one of the motivations was also like, you know, like cloud providers.
Sebastian Ramirez: So it's like, yes.
Sebastian Ramirez: The other thing is like, you know, if you use other different package managers, if they use the standard PyProject Autonomous format, that will also be supported.
Sebastian Ramirez: That means that, you know, like if you use PDM or if you use poetry with one of the recent versions, like that will work.
Sebastian Ramirez: If you use a very old version of poetry or like you use some other strange package manager or something, that will probably be problematic.
Sebastian Ramirez: But for like most of the use cases that use the standard package formats, it will just work.
Sebastian Ramirez: And if you use uv, then like you're going to have the best experience because we are fans of uv and Astro.
Michael Kennedy: They've definitely put a dent in the way that sort of Python gets started and making that a lot easier.
Michael Kennedy: So it totally makes sense.
Michael Kennedy: And also, I noticed, speaking of uv, that there's, at least in the recommended way, or the way in the docs, let's say,
Michael Kennedy: it doesn't say, here's how you install FastAPI.
Michael Kennedy: You just, here's how you run FastAPI-new, leveraging uv, which then will silently install and manage.
Michael Kennedy: All right, that's pretty neat.
Michael Kennedy: That helps you guys tell a simpler story, right?
Michael Kennedy: Instead of, here's how you create the virtual environment to install our thing and so on, you know?
Sebastian Ramirez: The idea is to make it like, as I was saying, just super simple for people just to start from scratch.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like no idea how to create an app, how to start, how to create an environment.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's just you run this command and you're off to go.
Sebastian Ramirez: Off to the races, I'm missing sands.
Sebastian Ramirez: Anyway, that's what Colombians do.
Sebastian Ramirez: But then if you already have an app, you have like, you know, like anything with FastAPI standard installed, then like that also just works.
Michael Kennedy: And Savannah, you pointed out that it doesn't have to be a new project.
Michael Kennedy: If you want to start from an existing one, that's totally fine.
Michael Kennedy: But what do I got to do if I'm starting from, if I'm migrating an existing one?
Michael Kennedy: Like how easy or hard is this?
Savannah Ostrowski: I have some like legacy project demo apps I've built at other companies I've worked with that have used FastAPI.
Savannah Ostrowski: And I literally just ran like FastAPI login and then FastAPI deploy and it just worked, which felt really magical.
Savannah Ostrowski: Right. Like I think that's like, I don't know, like having worked on cloud products for quite a while, like I think one of the biggest gaps is like the just I don't know, like the disparity between like my local dev environment and what is actually like lives up in the cloud somewhere.
Savannah Ostrowski: And so being able to just run one command and having the project as it exists on my machine go and work somewhere without having to think about like the infrastructure.
Savannah Ostrowski: And of course, like, you know, we want to be like amenable to folks who do want a little bit, you know, like higher touch.
Savannah Ostrowski: But we also want to work for people who are like learning FastAPI and Python, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Like educators and people that are teaching Python.
Savannah Ostrowski: I think this is like something that you've had some interest in as well from those folks.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, I was just listening to the Teaching Python podcast books just the other day and thinking, you know, like this, when I look at this, I know this is not necessarily your focus, but certainly people who are trying to teach a class, be it college class or high school class or whatever.
Michael Kennedy: And if you build anything on the web, the next question is, this is cool.
Michael Kennedy: How do I share it with people?
Michael Kennedy: And then they're like, oh, no.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, no.
Michael Kennedy: Hold on.
Savannah Ostrowski: Like coding boot camps, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Like if you're teaching someone how to write Python or how to build an API with FastAPI,
Savannah Ostrowski: like actually setting up the environment for them to deploy is not part of it, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Like that's not actually part of the curriculum.
Savannah Ostrowski: It's like this peripheral thing that ends up eating up a bunch of the educator's time or
Savannah Ostrowski: the student's time trying to understand both like how to write code and then also understand
Savannah Ostrowski: cloud stuff.
Savannah Ostrowski: And that's like a lot to ask people when they're fresh up the gate.
Michael Kennedy: I feel the same way about like tutorials and stuff at conferences.
Savannah Ostrowski: Yeah, totally.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah. Or training sessions. If you're doing like corporate training or like, they're all like,
Michael Kennedy: Oh, well, let's get everybody's machine working. There goes an hour and whatever. But yeah,
Michael Kennedy: if you can just say, look, I think when you're either, when you're trying to learn something,
Michael Kennedy: you'll be it through school or on your own or through these like more structured ways,
Michael Kennedy: like bootcamps and training and so on. I think if it's not the main purpose,
Michael Kennedy: I feel so often there's like, we're going to do 20 steps for four hours before you get any sort of
Michael Kennedy: reward of what you've done. And if you can go, okay, do you have it running? Okay, now you run
Michael Kennedy: this command. Look, now it's on the internet. Like, oh, wait, awesome. I got an app on the internet.
Michael Kennedy: Everybody look at me. You know what I mean? And I think shortening that cycle to where people can
Michael Kennedy: have that aha moment. And then later they can dive into like, well, how is it really working? And what
Michael Kennedy: do we really need to understand? But that quick iteration cycle, especially in the early parts of
Sebastian Ramirez: in new tech. It's really important. But also, you know, like down the line as well, I think,
Sebastian Ramirez: like, I don't know, there are so many things that I have been wanting to build and I don't,
Sebastian Ramirez: but I didn't because it was just so complex to deploy stuff. You know, like knowing,
Sebastian Ramirez: knowing how to do the whole thing, how to set up the clusters, the machines, install the Linux
Sebastian Ramirez: systems, deploy the cluster, whatever, like all that stuff, deploy the things,
Sebastian Ramirez: handling load balancers and HTTPS. I'm like, you know, like I know how to do that. I built one of
Sebastian Ramirez: the most popular websites teaching how to use Docker to ARM, which was like the contender
Sebastian Ramirez: before Kubernetes won everything.
Sebastian Ramirez: I like it.
Sebastian Ramirez: But still, it's just so complicated, like doing all those steps that are like, yeah, no, I'll
Sebastian Ramirez: just not do it.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like some other day.
Sebastian Ramirez: Now I can just like play around and do random stuff and just like deploy when it just works.
Sebastian Ramirez: It is, I really like that.
Savannah Ostrowski: I guess like coming back to that, like taking one for the team point earlier, like I feel
Savannah Ostrowski: like building Python tooling. It's kind of like taking one for the team sometimes because you have
Savannah Ostrowski: these folks that are like, you know, brand new to Python. Like Python is an extremely approachable
Savannah Ostrowski: language for people who are new to writing code. But then, you know, we also want to make FastAPI
Savannah Ostrowski: cloud work for someone that's building like an enterprise grade application, right? And so like,
Savannah Ostrowski: like pretty wide spectrum of folks with like a million different use cases and different types
Savannah Ostrowski: of applications they want to deploy with different constraints and like security stuff.
Savannah Ostrowski: And like, so yeah, I think, I don't know, maybe that's just like Python tooling.
Savannah Ostrowski: It's a lot of work, I guess, to like build something that works for the masses.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, well, it's certainly tough to make something that feels simple,
Michael Kennedy: but it's not overly simplistic, you know, that can actually solve the problems.
Savannah Ostrowski: Has the right knobs for the right users too, right?
Speaker 4: I would argue we're not only trying to do it simple and easy.
Speaker 4: I feel like we're choosing a particular flavor of simple, which is...
Speaker 4: We have this discussion a few times.
Speaker 4: It's like, if you make a cloud, how do we make it feel Pythonic?
Speaker 4: What does that mean in a cloud setting?
Speaker 4: We talk about Pythonic libraries, Pythonic coding style in the community a lot.
Speaker 4: And now we kind of try to transfer that flavor, that feeling to the cloud
Speaker 4: and make everything around that feel just like we want our libraries to feel.
Speaker 4: So you feel at home as a Python developer and it just feels right.
Speaker 4: So that's extra step on top of making it simple.
Speaker 4: And we discuss that a lot.
Speaker 4: That's how I feel about it.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Sebastian Ramirez: I think it's one of the coolest things about this team.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like, you know, like people are being able to hear a few of us.
Sebastian Ramirez: There's like, there are like a bunch of others, but like that each one of us is so passionate
Sebastian Ramirez: about the things that we are working on.
Sebastian Ramirez: So like, you know, like each one of us is trying to make the best out of the things that
Sebastian Ramirez: we are building.
Sebastian Ramirez: And then like, we are so passionate about the thing that we care about and that we are building.
Sebastian Ramirez: that I think that ends up being an amazing result.
Sebastian Ramirez: For example, the CLI.
Sebastian Ramirez: We wanted to have some specific, you know, like behavior,
Sebastian Ramirez: some look and feel.
Sebastian Ramirez: And like we wanted to be able to have like the best kind of CLIs.
Sebastian Ramirez: So Patrick went ahead and built this bunch of tooling
Sebastian Ramirez: that we needed to be able to have it
Sebastian Ramirez: and like made it open source and everything.
Sebastian Ramirez: So we could have this great experience when working with CLIs.
Sebastian Ramirez: Jonathan recently was doing so much stuff
Sebastian Ramirez: about the something that caches and handling security,
Sebastian Ramirez: making sure that everything was super secure,
Sebastian Ramirez: super fast, super snappy.
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, like Alejandra is super careful about all the UI.
Sebastian Ramirez: Martin is super careful about all the infra.
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, it's like this passionate mess,
Sebastian Ramirez: which is a word I just made up.
Sebastian Ramirez: This, Alejandra goes and says,
Sebastian Ramirez: like, this thing doesn't have the proper margins.
Sebastian Ramirez: We need to increase this a little bit.
Sebastian Ramirez: I don't like it.
Sebastian Ramirez: She just goes and fixes it.
Sebastian Ramirez: The same with Marvin.
Sebastian Ramirez: He says, like, we need to have, like, this sort of thing in infrastructure.
Sebastian Ramirez: And, like, just comes and tells me, hey, we are doing this.
Sebastian Ramirez: And he's like, yes, sir.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like this with the OpenVPN, like, Unix, for example,
Sebastian Ramirez: that is mainly focused on the open source,
Sebastian Ramirez: is constantly looking at all the discussions, PRs, conversations,
Sebastian Ramirez: making sure that everything that we do, that doesn't.
Sebastian Ramirez: So why, you know, like, there have been, like,
Sebastian Ramirez: recently way more releases of FastAPI friends of the open source projects
Sebastian Ramirez: and very fast book fixes,
Sebastian Ramirez: very fast responses to handle everything for the community.
Sebastian Ramirez: Now we actually have people that is paying attention constantly
Sebastian Ramirez: to what is happening,
Sebastian Ramirez: what are the things that we have to do,
Sebastian Ramirez: and that really care about that part as well.
Sebastian Ramirez: So I think this extreme care about what we are doing.
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, like Savannah is making Python.
Sebastian Ramirez: This detail that each one of us cares so, so much
Sebastian Ramirez: about each one of the things that we build,
Sebastian Ramirez: making sure that the product is actually amazing.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's as good as it can be,
Sebastian Ramirez: and we can all feel at home when...
Sebastian Ramirez: I get so excited for talking about it
Sebastian Ramirez: because I really enjoy the end result of the product
Sebastian Ramirez: and of being able to use it.
Sebastian Ramirez: I would use it in the end.
Sebastian Ramirez: I would use to work with it.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's super simple.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, that's awesome.
Michael Kennedy: Hey, let me adjust your mic real quick.
Michael Kennedy: I think it was like ducking,
Michael Kennedy: ducking out a little bit.
Speaker 4: We just went through a lot,
Speaker 4: a lot of content and a lot of sweating
Speaker 4: because your microphone went through like six different stages of weirdness.
Michael Kennedy: I think that really leads to like something I wanted to talk about is just what impact has this had on FastAPI?
Michael Kennedy: And before you jump in and answer that question, everyone, there's especially I think with Astral,
Michael Kennedy: but with because they've had so much success, there's been an undercurrent of concern of like,
Michael Kennedy: oh, my gosh, commercialism is getting into our open source.
Michael Kennedy: And what if it pollutes it and causes these negative aspects?
Michael Kennedy: But just hearing all of the energy around FastAPI with so many people,
Michael Kennedy: because of FastAPI Cloud, that's super neat.
Michael Kennedy: So I wanted to throw out to you all,
Michael Kennedy: how has this building FastAPI Cloud and the existence of FastAPI Cloud
Michael Kennedy: been giving back to FastAPI, I guess?
Sebastian Ramirez: I'm waiting to see if someone will speak FastAPI.
Sebastian Ramirez: I'm always the one that is speaking the most.
Savannah Ostrowski: I mean, it might be your project.
Savannah Ostrowski: Like, you may have started the project.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, maybe so.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like, last year, I had, like, a few keynotes in some picons in different places.
Sebastian Ramirez: And, like, one of the key points that I wanted to bring was this idea that I'm trying to show that, in many cases, people worry about the boss factor.
Sebastian Ramirez: And the boss factor is just this idea.
Michael Kennedy: Yes, yes, I've heard this, yes.
Sebastian Ramirez: Yeah, you know, like, the boss factor is the idea that, oh, what happens if, like, there's one person doing this work?
Sebastian Ramirez: What happens if a boss runs over this person?
Sebastian Ramirez: And there's so much worry about this boss factor.
Michael Kennedy: It's sort of a morbid analogy, but I understand, right?
Michael Kennedy: Like, what will happen to the open source project if the maintainer vanishes for some reason, right?
Sebastian Ramirez: Exactly.
Sebastian Ramirez: But, you know, like, it also applies to projects and to many other different things.
Sebastian Ramirez: But what I think is that it's a disproportionate amount of attention to this detail of the boss factor.
Sebastian Ramirez: And I think every time people talk about the boss factor, you know, like one of my points in what I was trying to say in these talks was I would like people to think about the boss ticket factor.
Sebastian Ramirez: Who is paying for those tickets?
Sebastian Ramirez: It doesn't matter how big is the team.
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, like you have seen Google, Amazon, Meta, all the big ones.
Sebastian Ramirez: They don't have a small boost factor.
Sebastian Ramirez: They have a lot of people in their payroll and still they finish products.
Sebastian Ramirez: They just cancel them.
Sebastian Ramirez: Open source or private or whatever.
Sebastian Ramirez: is not the main factor
Sebastian Ramirez: defining the success of a project,
Sebastian Ramirez: being it commercial or open source of any type,
Sebastian Ramirez: is not really how many people are behind it.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's more of what is the value
Sebastian Ramirez: that whoever is putting the effort to keep it alive
Sebastian Ramirez: is getting from putting all that effort.
Sebastian Ramirez: It could be just satisfaction.
Sebastian Ramirez: It could be like open source,
Sebastian Ramirez: like, oh, I feel so good that I'm contributing to society.
Sebastian Ramirez: And that is valid.
Sebastian Ramirez: It doesn't pay the rent,
Sebastian Ramirez: but it's still valid.
Sebastian Ramirez: It might last for a while.
Sebastian Ramirez: But then also like, you know, like when you see like there are so many Python projects, so many Python, so many open source projects that can do well or can do bad.
Sebastian Ramirez: And it doesn't really depend on how many people they have.
Sebastian Ramirez: And when you are using a project, when you're using an open source project or when you are using a product of any type, I will encourage you to think about what is the best ticket factor of this project?
Sebastian Ramirez: What are the things that whoever is building this is receiving in exchange for giving it away?
Sebastian Ramirez: So like, you know, like what are they expecting to sell you at some point?
Sebastian Ramirez: Or what are they receiving in exchange?
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, for example, Bun, the JavaScript Brompton LiDAR.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like it was like, we don't know what they're going to sell.
Sebastian Ramirez: But now, you know, Cloud and Entropic really want to have like this thing keep working because they are using it internally.
Sebastian Ramirez: So you can say like, OK, I'm going to use it.
Sebastian Ramirez: I'm going to use it for free.
Sebastian Ramirez: I know that what they receive for me using is just like that they just really want it.
Sebastian Ramirez: So I can just like, whenever you are using bond,
Sebastian Ramirez: you are getting, now you are getting free services
Sebastian Ramirez: from Antropoc, that's it.
Sebastian Ramirez: But you know, like every time you are using a project,
Sebastian Ramirez: you can think about why are people receiving an exchange
Sebastian Ramirez: for giving this away for me?
Sebastian Ramirez: This is like the thing that I would like people
Sebastian Ramirez: to think about, you know, like also like
Sebastian Ramirez: how can they give back?
Sebastian Ramirez: Maybe they can actually contribute to that community
Sebastian Ramirez: or to that project.
Sebastian Ramirez: There are many ways and in many cases,
Sebastian Ramirez: the thing that is needed the most is just like help
Sebastian Ramirez: and work, just answering questions and issues.
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Michael Kennedy: chapter to prime your focus or broaden your takeaways. Oh, and 0% of this book was written
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Michael Kennedy: I've made the first third of the book available for free online. After that, you can grab the DRM
Michael Kennedy: free EPUB and Kindle editions. And I'm working on a paperback edition as well. Please check it out
Michael Kennedy: at talkpython.fm/DevOps, or just click book in the nav bar on the website. It's a great way to
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Savannah Ostrowski: Kind of related to what you're saying, I think one of the angles that I really appreciate about
Savannah Ostrowski: the way we think about FastAPI and FastAPI Cloud is like where like a lot of our team was involved
Savannah Ostrowski: in open source before coming to work at FastAPI Cloud on various projects around the Python
Savannah Ostrowski: ecosystem, outside of Python.
Savannah Ostrowski: And I think all of us have deep appreciation and understanding of the value of open source
Savannah Ostrowski: and really, really try and build in a way that is like, I mean, Sebastian, you've talked
Savannah Ostrowski: about this a lot, but solving a real problem for folks, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: And so FastAPI Cloud is sort of this extension of this open source ecosystem people would
Savannah Ostrowski: be using.
Savannah Ostrowski: FastAPI Cloud may be an option.
Savannah Ostrowski: Maybe someone picks some other cloud for some reason.
Savannah Ostrowski: I don't think like, I think we're all very mindful of that.
Savannah Ostrowski: But like the angle that's very cool, I think,
Savannah Ostrowski: is that like, because we all work at FastAPI Cloud,
Savannah Ostrowski: like I know that I personally have time,
Savannah Ostrowski: more time for my open source work
Savannah Ostrowski: and my employer understands the value
Savannah Ostrowski: of my open source work,
Savannah Ostrowski: which isn't that positive for the open source community.
Savannah Ostrowski: Like I get to work on CPython sometimes
Savannah Ostrowski: and I have, you know, the bandwidth
Savannah Ostrowski: to go and do my steering council work
Savannah Ostrowski: or upcoming release management work.
Savannah Ostrowski: I understand like this sort of like,
Savannah Ostrowski: tempering, like open source, commercial, bad, all bad.
Savannah Ostrowski: It's not all bad.
Savannah Ostrowski: It's actually like really good in a lot of cases
Savannah Ostrowski: for folks to build business.
Michael Kennedy: Look at uv for an example to hold up, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Astral, yeah, yeah, totally.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: I think there are some really good examples of this.
Savannah Ostrowski: So I think like that's another angle that,
Savannah Ostrowski: I mean, I really, I get a lot of energy out of our team
Savannah Ostrowski: because we all, I don't have to,
Savannah Ostrowski: I don't have to fight the open source battle
Savannah Ostrowski: at FastAPI Cloud.
Savannah Ostrowski: I think that's really cool.
Michael Kennedy: I do think that's super cool as well.
Michael Kennedy: Let me put out two examples for you.
Michael Kennedy: here that I think everyone will be aware of as sort of to add to what Sebastian was saying is
Michael Kennedy: look how much Apple freaked out when Steve Jobs died and how many people work at Apple, right?
Michael Kennedy: Like that was still like, oh my gosh. But, you know, I think there's, they're hanging in there.
Patrick Arminio: They're going to be probably making it. They are not in our business. I tell you what,
Michael Kennedy: they got some of my money. That's for sure. But also, you know, look at Flask, right? Armin
Michael Kennedy: drifted away, which is totally fine. And David Lord and Pallets picked it up and kept running,
Michael Kennedy: right? Like it's still one of the most popular frameworks out there, right? So it's, I think
Michael Kennedy: the bus factor is over, overblown a bit, but also looking at the team of folks here, I think it's,
Michael Kennedy: it's even more obvious that there's a bunch of people who are on the inside, you know?
Sebastian Ramirez: For example, Flask, you know, like I learned so many things from Flask and like, the thing is,
Sebastian Ramirez: I feel like sometimes, sometimes people go and complain about the tool and say like, oh,
Sebastian Ramirez: this is not working for this or for that. And in many cases, it's in this insensitive way towards
Sebastian Ramirez: the people that are working on that. And it's like, you know, like in the end, realize that
Sebastian Ramirez: there's actually people behind the scenes doing the work. And like, in many cases, it's just like
Sebastian Ramirez: one or two people doing a lot of work in many cases, just for free. And, you know, like, I think
Sebastian Ramirez: it's worth calling that out. Like all the work that David Lord does for Flask is just like so
Michael Kennedy: much work. And yeah, deserves a lot of respect. I totally agree. The other thing that I forgot to
Sebastian Ramirez: mention is that there are so many ideas of potential products that I could build over the years, and I
Sebastian Ramirez: never did, and I never started a company because I didn't have clarity of what will be a good thing
Sebastian Ramirez: to actually sell and will have a good alignment. The cloud product has such a good alignment with
Sebastian Ramirez: the open source side because as more successful FastAPI is, the more successful FastAPI cloud
Sebastian Ramirez: has a potential to be.
Sebastian Ramirez: The more people using Python effectively,
Sebastian Ramirez: the more people might end up checking out FastAPI
Sebastian Ramirez: and the more people might end up checking out the product.
Sebastian Ramirez: So if FastAPI does well, if the open source does well,
Sebastian Ramirez: if Python does well, that's better for the company.
Sebastian Ramirez: So it doesn't really depend on my personal principles
Sebastian Ramirez: and values or something like that.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's aligned with, it's financially aligned with the company.
Sebastian Ramirez: So it's just going to be beneficial in the end
Sebastian Ramirez: It doesn't depend on good intentions.
Sebastian Ramirez: And FastAPI is open source.
Sebastian Ramirez: It has like 7,000 forks or something.
Sebastian Ramirez: So if a boost runs over me,
Sebastian Ramirez: there are 7,000 forks.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's not going away.
Michael Kennedy: I definitely agree with you on that.
Michael Kennedy: I feel like I should maybe give a little bit of a,
Michael Kennedy: I'll tell a little bit of the story
Michael Kennedy: of what's going on with,
Michael Kennedy: where did I put it?
Michael Kennedy: I don't think I pasted it over here,
Michael Kennedy: is what's going on with Tailwind right now.
Michael Kennedy: And I think Tailwind is having a tough time,
Michael Kennedy: Tailwind CSS.
Michael Kennedy: Traffic to Tailwind is up six times year over year on npm downloads.
Michael Kennedy: But the revenue of Tailwind is down five times.
Michael Kennedy: You know, I mean, these are completely out of whack things because instead of people going
Michael Kennedy: to docs to learn about it, it's just like, well, when you go to the docs, you learn they
Michael Kennedy: also have premium offerings, right?
Michael Kennedy: And I think you guys are different because it's not just, oh, here's a little bit nicer
Michael Kennedy: of a thing, right?
Michael Kennedy: I feel like it would be a little bit as if you were selling cookie cutter templates for FastAPI apps, you know, it's like, well, the AI can make the shape of the thing that comes out of the cookie cutter, to be honest.
Michael Kennedy: But you're offering something that has ongoing value that it costs more and is more complex in other places.
Michael Kennedy: And so I think maybe just thinking about the how this just keeps the team going for FastAPI is really awesome.
Michael Kennedy: And I think it's got a nice flywheel effect there.
Michael Kennedy: is I'll link to this, I guess, audio track.
Michael Kennedy: I don't know what I call it.
Michael Kennedy: It's a blog post that has one sentence,
Michael Kennedy: but a 30-minute audio you can check out
Michael Kennedy: from the guy, Adam,
Michael Kennedy: who's one of the founders of Tailwind,
Michael Kennedy: talking about going into this.
Michael Kennedy: It's kind of rough.
Michael Kennedy: I think I don't necessarily want to go into a deep AI,
Michael Kennedy: what it means for the industry.
Michael Kennedy: Like, let's stay focused on what you guys are doing.
But I think it's going to be its own series.
Michael Kennedy: I mean, Stack Overflow had as many questions asked
Michael Kennedy: this month as they did in the first month of their existence, right?
Michael Kennedy: Three or 4,000, whereas at their peak, they were 200,000 questions a month.
Michael Kennedy: There's like real turmoil that's coming from some of these things, which is tricky.
Michael Kennedy: But I'm really excited to see you all doing this because I'm a big fan of FastAPI.
Michael Kennedy: And I think this is just sustaining and more for FastAPI, right?
Michael Kennedy: Like, what do you all think?
Sebastian Ramirez: That's what we hope that is going on.
Speaker 4: I thought about Taiwan for a second, right?
Speaker 4: It's not like we're immune to what happened to them.
Speaker 4: Like we also have a lot of documentation online.
Speaker 4: AI could train on that.
Speaker 4: And if it's good enough,
Speaker 4: it could maintain your infrastructure and stuff.
Speaker 4: It's just too hard at the moment.
Speaker 4: And there's an additional thing we're kind of selling,
Speaker 4: which is like, I guess, responsibility.
Speaker 4: Like you're shifting the risk from like letting your AI
Speaker 4: or your infantry team maintain your infrastructure to us.
Speaker 4: So we're staying up at night and worry about it.
Speaker 4: that has a lot of value as well.
Speaker 4: And that's probably not going to get removed by AI.
Michael Kennedy: Here's a very common cloud code,
Michael Kennedy: cursor, whatever conversation.
Michael Kennedy: Hey, build me something with Python and needs an API.
Michael Kennedy: Okay, we built it with FastAPI.
Michael Kennedy: How do I host it?
Michael Kennedy: Right, that doesn't just,
Michael Kennedy: it will build a cloud for you, right?
Michael Kennedy: It's going to recommend something out there.
Michael Kennedy: And a real natural way to how do I host FastAPI
Michael Kennedy: is FastAPI cloud, right?
Michael Kennedy: Like if it suggests,
Michael Kennedy: oh, you're just going to like spread it across Lambda by breaking.
Michael Kennedy: Like, whoa, no, I want something simple.
Michael Kennedy: Okay, give me FastAPI cloud, right?
Michael Kennedy: I think that that's a really good thing.
Michael Kennedy: And then on the enterprise side,
Michael Kennedy: enterprise folks are notoriously not good at supporting open source
Michael Kennedy: in that they're not like paying for it.
Michael Kennedy: I know some companies are big supporters of the PSF and Python and open source.
Michael Kennedy: But in general, it's like, yeah, we have this project with 5,000 people working on it.
Michael Kennedy: It's all Python.
Michael Kennedy: And are we sponsoring this?
Michael Kennedy: Nope.
Michael Kennedy: We're just enjoying the money, right?
Michael Kennedy: And we're a bank.
Michael Kennedy: So we got the money.
Michael Kennedy: We got all the money.
Michael Kennedy: So they're just not good at paying for like a really great framework that they use a lot.
Michael Kennedy: But they got plenty of hosting, plenty of internal apps that they just need to make run and stuff.
Michael Kennedy: So I think both on like the low end and the high end, there's a lot of synergy between these things.
Michael Kennedy: That is not just, you know, slightly advanced, not to diminish it, but slightly advanced UI widgets that you could ask your AI to build or something or like cookie cutter templates for project starters.
Sebastian Ramirez: I think we are in a somewhat fortunate position of like, you know, like FastAPI. FastAPI has grown so much.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like, you know, like when you check the statistics about downloads or GitHub stars or entries in developer surveys,
Sebastian Ramirez: like it's at the top in like in each category.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's like, you know, like the backend framework with the most GitHub stars across languages,
Sebastian Ramirez: even like, you know, like Java, Go, Ruby, JS, like whatever.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's like the top one, at least in GitHub stars.
Sebastian Ramirez: So like, you know, like FastAPI is like people are liking it, fortunately.
Sebastian Ramirez: And there's probably going to be people deploying things to FastAPI Cloud.
Sebastian Ramirez: So that's probably going to be like, we are probably going to be fine.
Sebastian Ramirez: I think, you know, like the, I guess it will be like a good point to ask people to go and
Sebastian Ramirez: check where the open source project is that they are using and check where is the bus ticket
Sebastian Ramirez: factor for those open source projects.
Sebastian Ramirez: You know, like if you are using Tailwind CSS, it would have been very cool if at some point you check if the premium things were useful for you and for your company or your project or something like that, you know?
Sebastian Ramirez: Yeah, because what is the thing that keeps that project going?
Michael Kennedy: Exactly.
Michael Kennedy: And I really personally admire if a project or something offers like more value, not just, hey, buy me a coffee, but here's a thing that you get way more of, you know?
Michael Kennedy: And in that regard, I think Tailwind was doing that, right?
Michael Kennedy: They were offering this suite of pre-built things.
Michael Kennedy: And I think that that's great.
Michael Kennedy: But yeah, I do think you've got more of these crazy AI things
Michael Kennedy: are going to maybe recommend FastAPI Cloud more
Michael Kennedy: than they're just going to undercut it.
Michael Kennedy: So I think that's really great.
Michael Kennedy: And by the way, I was just looking for the GitHub Stars graph.
Michael Kennedy: Like there's a whole, I can't remember what the domain of that site is.
Michael Kennedy: And I ran across, by the way, I just want to give a quick shout out.
Michael Kennedy: Like your cult repo documentary on FastAPI was awesome.
Sebastian Ramirez: Right?
Sebastian Ramirez: That was so fun.
Sebastian Ramirez: They made me look good.
Michael Kennedy: I didn't see that coming.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, it came right on the heels of the Python official
Michael Kennedy: documentary, the one hour one.
Michael Kennedy: This is the same group, and the production quality
Michael Kennedy: is really nice.
Michael Kennedy: So like--
Sebastian Ramirez: When they released the trailer for the Python documentary,
Sebastian Ramirez: before releasing the documentary, when they released the trailer,
Sebastian Ramirez: they contacted me and said, hey, we're
Sebastian Ramirez: doing these mini documentaries about different frameworks,
Sebastian Ramirez: different tools, and we want to include FastAPI there.
Sebastian Ramirez: I was like, oh, nice.
Sebastian Ramirez: But then I was just trying to stay excited,
Sebastian Ramirez: but super excited.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, I watched it as soon as it came out. So I'll link to that. People should
Michael Kennedy: definitely, it's only like 10 minutes or something, but it's worth it. We're checking out. So it's not
Michael Kennedy: a huge investment time. People can watch it, I suppose. It's not TikTok. I mean, it's not like,
Michael Kennedy: oh, I saw the documentary, but it doesn't take you on huge about it.
Sebastian Ramirez: You have to listen for 10 minutes, overly excited Colombian.
Michael Kennedy: I don't understand what's happened to the attention span of society. I'm really,
Michael Kennedy: honestly a little concerned. I used to, when I would create my courses, people would say,
Michael Kennedy: you know, like a four hour course and there'd be like a 10, 15 minute sort of, Hey, here's how you
Michael Kennedy: set up your computer. And here's all the introduction and people, Oh, that's so awesome.
Michael Kennedy: I loved how you kind of set the stage. I'm really motivated to take the course.
Michael Kennedy: Nowadays, I just get messages like, why are you still talking? This is five minutes long. Do you
Michael Kennedy: understand? I'm like, this is your job. You can't spend five minutes. Oh my gosh. Anyway, that's,
Michael Kennedy: that's sort of the origin of my comment there. It's all right. So we're kind of getting so much
Michael Kennedy: time, I think I want to talk about a couple of things. Let's talk a little bit about internals.
Michael Kennedy: Like what, I don't know who wants to take this one, but let's talk about just how, when I say
Michael Kennedy: FastAPI deploy, then what? It's just a uv pip install and it just goes and it's magic and it's
Sebastian Ramirez: easy, right? We have a nickname for Jonathan. Can we say it or no? I don't know. It's so funny.
Speaker 4: This happened because I told my friends, I'm so concerned about being at the podcast because
Speaker 4: Because everyone here is a visionary, and then I'm the back-end guy.
Speaker 4: I think the things I could contribute to this conversation, I should probably keep to myself.
Speaker 4: But you're just leaking your turnouts, right?
Speaker 4: There are some things that are not really secret.
Speaker 4: Like, as Sebastian said earlier, Kubernetes 1 in the infrastructure and deployment field, to some extent.
Speaker 4: So that's somewhere in there, right?
Speaker 4: But it's all the way deep down, so no one has to worry about it.
Speaker 4: But it's still a foundation.
Speaker 4: which is a good foundation.
Speaker 4: I think one thing that's,
Speaker 4: you might have guessed it,
Speaker 4: but FastAPI Cloud is built on FastAPI,
Speaker 4: which kind of makes sense, right?
Speaker 4: And that also has an effect
Speaker 4: on like recent patches, updates and stuff.
Speaker 4: Because if we find something internally
Speaker 4: which we're not happy with,
Speaker 4: then we just fix it.
Speaker 4: And that's how some releases
Speaker 4: came out faster than months before.
Savannah Ostrowski: Power of dogfooding.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 4: Dogfooding a lot.
Speaker 4: Also all the related libraries
Speaker 4: like SQL model and, well, others.
Speaker 4: they experience the same thing.
Sebastian Ramirez: New library is coming out.
Sebastian Ramirez: Patrick will announce at some point soon.
Speaker 4: It's not just FastJPay and friends.
Speaker 4: We're like really open.
Speaker 4: Like recently, Patrick just open-sourced
Speaker 4: everything we use for authentication authorization,
Speaker 4: for example.
Speaker 4: Is it open-source yet?
Speaker 4: Did they just leak something?
Sebastian Ramirez: It will be announced soon at some point.
Speaker 4: We build stuff internally in the moment really.
Speaker 4: Like we build it in a way,
Speaker 4: like in a separate package,
Speaker 4: just like an open-source library.
Speaker 4: And if we feel like the time is ripe,
Speaker 4: it's just getting open-sourced
Speaker 4: because a lot of things are reusable.
Speaker 4: And that's in all departments.
Speaker 4: That happens a lot.
Speaker 4: When I started there, I already realized that.
Speaker 4: Everyone was building open source,
Speaker 4: but now I joined in myself as well.
Speaker 4: I open source the library for compressing
Speaker 4: and decompressing archives in Python
Speaker 4: because the internal top high thing is just slow
Speaker 4: and we needed it to be faster
Speaker 4: because we're staring at the deployment process
Speaker 4: and we're like, hey, we could probably shave off a few seconds here.
Speaker 4: Then that's just open source for everyone to use.
Speaker 4: So we're contributing to the old Python ecosystem as well.
Sebastian Ramirez: You have to say the name.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's so good.
Speaker 4: Is it good?
Speaker 4: No, it's just, it's faster because it's, you know, faster than just tar.
Sebastian Ramirez: Fast tar?
Sebastian Ramirez: I love it.
Sebastian Ramirez: Fast tar, yes.
Sebastian Ramirez: And you can say with that very, very German accent, fast tar.
Michael Kennedy: I'll go star it.
Michael Kennedy: We'll get you some stars.
Michael Kennedy: This is going to happen.
Speaker 4: That's the irony about it.
Speaker 4: Like, it literally has no stars.
Speaker 4: But if you scroll down, you see the downloads.
Speaker 4: That's going to prove we're actually using it.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, I like it.
Michael Kennedy: It's a little context manager.
Speaker 4: It's almost working the same as the TAL file in the standard library.
Speaker 4: Like the same, like almost similar API to that.
Speaker 4: It's basically a drop-in replacement, more or less.
Sebastian Ramirez: But they know they need everything to happen in Rust.
Savannah Ostrowski: Because Rust.
Savannah Ostrowski: Because Rust, yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Well, as soon as it becomes infrastructure and you've got to run it a million times,
Michael Kennedy: that starts to make sense, right?
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Python is one of the fastest programming languages in the world.
Michael Kennedy: when you think about human time to build the things, right?
Michael Kennedy: Like that's one of its real superpowers is like,
Michael Kennedy: I mean, there's the whole story of Google Video and YouTube, right?
Michael Kennedy: And Google Video was written in C++ with 100 engineers
Michael Kennedy: and YouTube was a small team in Python
Michael Kennedy: and they just couldn't keep up with the features.
Michael Kennedy: So they bought this little old thing, YouTube,
Michael Kennedy: and see if we're going to make something with it.
Michael Kennedy: And last I checked, it was still in Python.
Michael Kennedy: I'm sure some of it isn't, but a few years ago it was, which is wild.
Michael Kennedy: Anyway, there's different ways of fast,
Michael Kennedy: But when it's down to like little utilities, yeah.
Savannah Ostrowski: I know some people that are trying to make Python fast.
Savannah Ostrowski: I know a couple.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: And honestly, massive success in the last five years, right?
Savannah Ostrowski: Like since 3.11, since the specializing adaptive interpreter, there's been pretty big improvements.
Michael Kennedy: 3.9 and 3.11 did a lot of like foundational work.
Michael Kennedy: And then 3.9 onward really just uncorked a lot of innovation there.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
Michael Kennedy: All right.
Michael Kennedy: It sounds like, Sebastian, you've talked a lot about Kubernetes.
Michael Kennedy: So I imagine Kubernetes is happening.
Michael Kennedy: Do we get to pick what data centers it runs on?
Michael Kennedy: Do we get to pick what clouds it runs on?
Sebastian Ramirez: You're going to get to pick some of these things.
Sebastian Ramirez: Not yet.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's not released yet.
Sebastian Ramirez: But, you know, like it's top, of course.
Sebastian Ramirez: Like we have like regular cloud providers on the MIT
Sebastian Ramirez: and there's a bunch of Kubernetes.
Sebastian Ramirez: Then there's a bunch of additional stuff
Sebastian Ramirez: that needs to run on top.
Sebastian Ramirez: Then there's like custom Kubernetes controllers
Sebastian Ramirez: and things that Jonathan was saying
Sebastian Ramirez: that he's having to write in Go
Sebastian Ramirez: so that people in Python can be happy to be able to, you know,
Sebastian Ramirez: like manage all the Kubernetes shenanigans that need to happen
Sebastian Ramirez: because there's so much complexity that needs to be handled.
Sebastian Ramirez: There's a lot of that.
Sebastian Ramirez: We do a lot of advanced tricks also.
Sebastian Ramirez: Jonathan was recently doing a bunch of advanced tricks
Sebastian Ramirez: to handle the caches for the builds.
Sebastian Ramirez: So the way that we handle caches,
Sebastian Ramirez: and we also like tap into uv and how things work
Sebastian Ramirez: so that builds can be super, super fast
Sebastian Ramirez: because it's like something is,
Sebastian Ramirez: we are, you know, like we are very much targeted
Sebastian Ramirez: at FastAPI and Python in general.
Sebastian Ramirez: So we can take advantage of knowing
Sebastian Ramirez: how things run internally,
Sebastian Ramirez: how things are installed,
Sebastian Ramirez: how to optimize everything.
Sebastian Ramirez: So everything is just like super fast,
Sebastian Ramirez: super fast to install, to run, to like do everything.
Michael Kennedy: I imagine you all have base Docker images
Michael Kennedy: that are like just one layer away
Michael Kennedy: from whoever's code is running.
Michael Kennedy: You know, like you've got it all optimized,
Michael Kennedy: already pre-built with FastAPI and whatever settings of Python you want.
Sebastian Ramirez: A bunch of things and tricks.
Sebastian Ramirez: But there are also different things,
Sebastian Ramirez: like the different ways that we do to actually build the things
Sebastian Ramirez: and install things and put them inside of the actual build application.
Sebastian Ramirez: There's a lot of sourcing that we do there,
Sebastian Ramirez: and Jonathan has been working on a lot of that.
Sebastian Ramirez: And there's also all the logic and all the stuff.
Sebastian Ramirez: We have a bunch of stuff on top of that to handle out of scaling,
Sebastian Ramirez: which is something that is actually not that easy to find in different providers.
Sebastian Ramirez: We have auto-scaling based on requests, including scaling down to zero, which saves costs.
Sebastian Ramirez: But this is not Lambdas.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's not AWS Lambdas.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's like the full deployed application, the full container or whatever it is,
Sebastian Ramirez: which is the full thing with all the dependencies.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's running for whenever it has to run, but we can scale based on requests.
Sebastian Ramirez: So I guess it's like the type of thing that you will have if you have this giant cluster for a huge enterprise with a bunch of infra people making sure everything just works perfectly.
Sebastian Ramirez: But you just pay us to do that for you.
Savannah Ostrowski: This is also a good time for us to probably say lots of stuff is coming and we're in private beta.
Savannah Ostrowski: And so you should sign up for the wait list so that you can get admitted and try out these very cool things we've been talking about.
Michael Kennedy: Absolutely.
Michael Kennedy: And I think I'll let Tech Insider out in the audience sort of lean into it.
Savannah Ostrowski: Public release one.
Savannah Ostrowski: Sebastian, when?
Savannah Ostrowski: Public release one.
Michael Kennedy: My final topic, which is just what's the roadmap?
Michael Kennedy: When is this stuff?
Michael Kennedy: Like, how do we get into it here?
Michael Kennedy: Why would they like Litestar?
Sebastian Ramirez: We have the, right now we have the waiting list and we are onboarding people.
Sebastian Ramirez: We already have like a bunch of people in the private beta.
Sebastian Ramirez: We're going to keep onboarding people from the waiting list and like, you know, like ramp that up.
Sebastian Ramirez: But it will be like, you know, like through the waiting list is the main place where we are onboarding.
Sebastian Ramirez: People will want to make sure that everything is super fine-tuned.
Sebastian Ramirez: And we're going to keep it that way for a while.
Sebastian Ramirez: So like people that are on the waiting list are going to be like the ones that are going to be able to start using it the soonest.
Sebastian Ramirez: At some point, we'll probably have ways for people to invite others and things like that.
Sebastian Ramirez: About the things that we are building, we want to, you know, like we are super focused on FastAPI and then Python in general.
Sebastian Ramirez: at some point will probably support different tools,
Sebastian Ramirez: different ways to run, also like Python code in general,
Sebastian Ramirez: probably different frameworks.
Sebastian Ramirez: It will also depend a lot on what the users are asking for,
Sebastian Ramirez: whether like the tools, the frameworks, the use cases,
Sebastian Ramirez: the things that they need to build.
Sebastian Ramirez: And like, we're going to evolve the platform and the system
Sebastian Ramirez: based on what people need out of it.
Savannah Ostrowski: We have like a GitHub repo where we have issues,
Savannah Ostrowski: but we also have like a Slack that once people are admitted,
Savannah Ostrowski: they can talk directly to us and that feedback is really, really valuable for shaping the roadmap
Savannah Ostrowski: and figuring out all the fun things you want us to support.
Michael Kennedy: Awesome. Of course, you're going to charge money for it. It runs on servers and you guys are not
Michael Kennedy: a charity, but can you give any sense of what you're thinking about that kind of stuff or
Michael Kennedy: join the waitlist and see?
Sebastian Ramirez: Well, first join the waitlist and see, but we don't have like that predefined yet,
Sebastian Ramirez: but they will be on the ballpark of what you could get from different cloud providers.
Sebastian Ramirez: So different similar-ish providers will be on the ballpark of what you will get.
Sebastian Ramirez: But it's not written in stone yet.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's still a little bit different because we can auto-scale based on requests.
Sebastian Ramirez: So we can increase the amount of replicas of your application automatically,
Sebastian Ramirez: and then we can decrease them automatically, and we can scale down to zero.
Sebastian Ramirez: So you can probably handle all the load that you need and in the end spend a lot less because you don't have to have a bunch of instances constantly running or things like that, you know.
Sebastian Ramirez: So it will probably work a little bit different than what it will be for other providers.
Sebastian Ramirez: But in the end, it should be roughly similar.
Michael Kennedy: Okay. And given the fact that you all handle so much of it as a platform as a service type of thing, you don't have to have a cloud expert on hand or a DevOps expert necessarily, right? As soon as a company hires somebody to be an AWS cloud architect or something like that, it's no longer just what is your AWS bill.
Sebastian Ramirez: It's also a little bit of pain that we are swallowing so you don't have to take it.
Michael Kennedy: Exactly. It's part of taking one for the team, right?
Michael Kennedy: Yes.
Sebastian Ramirez: Yes.
Michael Kennedy: Indeed.
Michael Kennedy: All right, so I had one or two things specifically
Michael Kennedy: that I was seeking.
Michael Kennedy: It's like custom domains.
Michael Kennedy: How far off are custom domains?
Michael Kennedy: I was like, oh, I could put some cool things on there.
Michael Kennedy: I could tell Jonathan is psyched about this.
Michael Kennedy: It'd be really fun to put one of my really small
Michael Kennedy: FastAPI projects over there,
Michael Kennedy: something I set up for some of my courses or something,
Michael Kennedy: and then I can point people to go,
Michael Kennedy: look, it's running on FastAPI Cloud.
Michael Kennedy: How neat, you guys can check that out over there.
Michael Kennedy: And I'm like, but it's on its own domain,
Michael Kennedy: that domain is baked into the course videos, you know what I mean? And it's written in stone.
Michael Kennedy: It's marketing.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, exactly. So I can't really move it because it has, you know, some subdomain of Talk Python,
Michael Kennedy: right?
Speaker 4: I was working on it. And then I got the notification by Google Calendar that I should
Speaker 4: join a certain podcast. So...
Michael Kennedy: Are you telling me we don't have custom domains? Because I'm here asking you about custom domains.
Michael Kennedy: How meta is that?
Speaker 4: You got it. It could be here already. But no, you have to wait a bit more.
Michael Kennedy: Okay. But soon?
Speaker 4: Yeah. As soon as broad enough, but I'm actively working on it. Let's put it like that.
Michael Kennedy: Okay. That sounds great. And then, I mean, just, it's never simple. You know, I just,
Michael Kennedy: I set up some stuff and it's like, you get the pop-up. Oh, you got to put this, you know,
Michael Kennedy: this TXT record or this CNAME or whatever record into your DNS and then we're checking it. Oh,
Michael Kennedy: it might take three days for your DNS to propagate. So hang in there and just, I can imagine like
Speaker 4: you're having fun yeah i guess you're kidding me that's like wow i i thought i'm almost off work
Speaker 4: but no you're bringing it all back but yeah that's a that's a thing i'm sure the company
Michael Kennedy: could support therapy to like work work through the issues and the trauma that you've suffered
Michael Kennedy: from the dns it's always dns that's right i mean you got that's an yes it's always dns yes
Patrick Arminio: i guess one of our goals with custom domains also to make it super simple for you to set up them
Patrick Arminio: Like, for example, if you're using one of the providers that support OAuth, we can also just do one click and then it's going to be automatically.
Patrick Arminio: Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that's really nice.
Patrick Arminio: But unfortunately, it depends on the platform you're using.
Patrick Arminio: All of them support this.
Sebastian Ramirez: This is said by the person in charge of most of the integrations.
Sebastian Ramirez: So Patrick has built, we have integrations for a bunch of database providers and things like that.
Sebastian Ramirez: I think now Patrick knows by memory, open ID specification.
Sebastian Ramirez: I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, the other thing I wanted to talk a bit about was just integrations, like what kind of stuff you guys have coming in.
Michael Kennedy: I saw that Hugging Face is going to be integrated soon.
Michael Kennedy: You've got Supabase, which is kind of Postgres as a service.
Michael Kennedy: There's a lot of those things out there that theoretically could be added.
Patrick Arminio: Someone also asked for MongoDB.
Patrick Arminio: Maybe that's one that we're going to take a look into.
Patrick Arminio: It really depends on the provider.
Patrick Arminio: So at the moment, we don't want to ask databases for you because that's also another kind of rabbit hole.
Patrick Arminio: Jonathan is probably not ready for that.
Patrick Arminio: But yeah, definitely database.
Patrick Arminio: But I guess we can say that we're also talking with the people from Pydantic
Patrick Arminio: so we can integrate maybe Logfire automatically, that kind of stuff.
Patrick Arminio: Yeah.
Patrick Arminio: And also things like Redis, which is also another kind of database.
Michael Kennedy: That's also coming soon.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, there's a couple of database as a service type things
Michael Kennedy: that don't require too much other than just connecting API keys
Michael Kennedy: and something like that, right?
Michael Kennedy: Those seem like low-hanging fruit.
Patrick Arminio: Like the kind of goal with the integration is not just done.
Patrick Arminio: Like, yeah, right now it's just setting up an environment variable.
Patrick Arminio: But the idea is also to more, I don't know, like the proper integration, I would say.
Patrick Arminio: Like, for example, for things like Superbase, if, yeah, I think that's support branching.
Patrick Arminio: Like, for example, once we support ProQuest Previews for GitHub, like we can also create
Patrick Arminio: a branch automatically for you if you have the Superbase integration enabled.
Patrick Arminio: And we can do this kind of stuff as well.
Patrick Arminio: Or even we could show like some information about database.
Patrick Arminio: I don't know, like load or like memory usage,
Patrick Arminio: things are directly from our dashboard.
Patrick Arminio: So you don't have to go there.
Patrick Arminio: That's the main reason why we're building this infrastructure
Michael Kennedy: for the integration.
Michael Kennedy: Well, people can sign up to the waiting list
Michael Kennedy: and hopefully get on the private beta.
Sebastian Ramirez: We actually check the waiting list.
Sebastian Ramirez: We actually check the use cases, team sizes,
Sebastian Ramirez: like what are people building with it?
Sebastian Ramirez: Like we actually go and check it
Sebastian Ramirez: and we bring in people from the waiting list.
Michael Kennedy: Nice. You know, I didn't join the waiting list directly.
Michael Kennedy: I was added by some guy I know who was very kind
Michael Kennedy: to help me get some behind-the-scene look.
Michael Kennedy: So I don't know what the process is.
Michael Kennedy: Do you actually say what you want to do with it?
Michael Kennedy: And you evaluate that a little bit as well based on, like,
Michael Kennedy: hey, this would be a cool use case for us to support?
Sebastian Ramirez: There are many types of applications
Sebastian Ramirez: and many types of different team sizes,
Sebastian Ramirez: many types of things that people might want to build.
Sebastian Ramirez: And we try to see, like, okay, where is a case
Sebastian Ramirez: where we could be a good fit and we can provide a great service?
Sebastian Ramirez: And where are the things that people are trying to build?
Sebastian Ramirez: Also, it also helps us see, like, you know, like, what are people trying to do with Fasted
Sebastian Ramirez: Vehicle so that we know what we have to provide?
Sebastian Ramirez: But we actually go and check those, you know, like those submissions on, like, sexually thousands
Sebastian Ramirez: of people in the waiting list, but we still go and check and approve kind of manually still
Sebastian Ramirez: to bring a bunch of people on board in the different ways that we have been bringing people.
Sebastian Ramirez: So if people go and join the waiting list and actually tell us what they are, what is their
Sebastian Ramirez: use case, their team, what are they planning on doing?
Sebastian Ramirez: There's a much higher chance that we are going to go
Sebastian Ramirez: on to bring them up.
Michael Kennedy: MARK MANDEL: Awesome.
Michael Kennedy: So everyone, go join the waitlist.
Michael Kennedy: If you're doing FastAPI, I'll link to it in the show notes,
Michael Kennedy: of course.
Michael Kennedy: Thank you all for being here and sharing the story.
Michael Kennedy: And I, for one, am very excited to see FastAPI Cloud exist
Michael Kennedy: and just one more way to make FastAPI stronger
Michael Kennedy: and more resilient and so on.
Sebastian Ramirez: FRANCESC CAMPOY: Thank you very much.
Michael Kennedy: Thank you for having us.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, it's super fun.
Michael Kennedy: Thanks for having us.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, you bet.
Michael Kennedy: Bye, everyone.
Savannah Ostrowski: Bye, folks.
Michael Kennedy: Bye-bye.
Michael Kennedy: Bye.
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Michael Kennedy: The link is actually in your podcast blur show notes.
Michael Kennedy: This is your host, Michael Kennedy.
Michael Kennedy: Thank you so much for listening.
Michael Kennedy: I really appreciate it.
Michael Kennedy: I'll see you next time.
I'm out.