WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:03.920 One of the most exciting initiatives in the Python space these days is PyScript, 00:00:03.920 --> 00:00:06.620 which enables Python running natively in your browser. 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:09.660 With consistent support from the folks at Anaconda, 00:00:09.660 --> 00:00:13.420 this project has been making solid strides since its initial release. 00:00:13.420 --> 00:00:17.060 On this episode, we catch up with Fabio Pliger and Nicolas Tolervé 00:00:17.060 --> 00:00:19.260 to see where they are with the PyScript project. 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:24.840 This is Talk Python To Me, episode 426, recorded June 22, 2023. 00:00:24.840 --> 00:00:40.980 Welcome to Talk Python To Me, a weekly podcast on Python. 00:00:40.980 --> 00:00:42.720 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. 00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:45.380 Follow me on Mastodon, where I'm @mkennedy, 00:00:45.380 --> 00:00:50.200 and follow the podcast using @talkpython, both on fosstodon.org. 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:52.800 Be careful with impersonating accounts on other instances. 00:00:52.800 --> 00:00:53.780 There are many. 00:00:54.340 --> 00:00:58.840 Keep up with the show and listen to over seven years of past episodes at talkpython.fm. 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.880 We've started streaming most of our episodes live on YouTube. 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:06.600 Subscribe to our YouTube channel over at talkpython.fm/youtube 00:01:06.600 --> 00:01:10.400 to get notified about upcoming shows and be part of that episode. 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.340 This episode is brought to you by JetBrains, 00:01:14.340 --> 00:01:17.620 who encourage you to get work done with PyCharm. 00:01:17.620 --> 00:01:21.860 Download your free trial of PyCharm Professional at talkpython.fm 00:01:21.860 --> 00:01:24.520 slash done dash with dash PyCharm. 00:01:24.520 --> 00:01:27.020 And it's brought to you by Sentry. 00:01:27.020 --> 00:01:29.280 Don't let those errors go unnoticed. 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:30.280 Use Sentry. 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:33.120 Get started at talkpython.fm/sentry. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.000 Nicholas, Fabio, welcome to Talk Python To Me. 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:36.460 Hi. 00:01:36.460 --> 00:01:37.240 How are you, Michael? 00:01:37.240 --> 00:01:37.800 Doing well. 00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:39.440 I think I should say welcome back. 00:01:39.740 --> 00:01:43.400 You know, I've been on the show a couple of times for various things. 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:49.220 Most recently, other than this, also about PyScript and MicroPython, 00:01:49.220 --> 00:01:52.360 which we'll touch a little bit on as well. 00:01:52.360 --> 00:01:54.420 But yeah, excited to have you both here. 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:56.780 Excited, as always, to be talking about PyScript. 00:01:56.780 --> 00:01:58.920 One day I can just, I feel it. 00:01:58.920 --> 00:01:59.980 We're going to be living the dream. 00:01:59.980 --> 00:02:01.420 Python in the browser. 00:02:02.300 --> 00:02:03.480 It's going to be fantastic. 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:04.060 Let's do it. 00:02:04.060 --> 00:02:04.460 I hope so. 00:02:04.460 --> 00:02:05.360 Let's hope. 00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:05.840 Yes. 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:07.380 I mean, is the dream real now? 00:02:07.380 --> 00:02:09.000 That's kind of part of the question. 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.720 And we'll see how it's to some degree real. 00:02:11.720 --> 00:02:13.660 And you all are making great progress on that. 00:02:13.660 --> 00:02:14.800 I'm going to spoil it. 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:15.660 That's the thing. 00:02:17.660 --> 00:02:17.920 Yeah. 00:02:17.920 --> 00:02:21.520 And like, Nicholas and I are laughing for a reason too, 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.040 which we can't wait to, you know, talk about it. 00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:25.340 So that's going to be good. 00:02:25.340 --> 00:02:26.760 We can't wait to hear about it. 00:02:26.760 --> 00:02:28.700 But before we do, you know, like I said, 00:02:28.700 --> 00:02:31.600 you both have been on the show for a couple of reasons, 00:02:31.600 --> 00:02:33.160 a couple of episodes previously. 00:02:33.160 --> 00:02:36.560 But quick introductions for folks that don't necessarily know you. 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:37.200 You want to start, Nicholas? 00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:38.520 Okay, I'll go first. 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:39.160 I'm Nicholas. 00:02:39.160 --> 00:02:43.540 I'm a principal engineer on the PyScript team at Anaconda. 00:02:43.540 --> 00:02:48.060 And my passion is Python education, 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:52.360 which is one of the other reasons why I was on the show earlier. 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:54.940 And I've also been involved in all sorts of different aspects 00:02:54.940 --> 00:02:56.740 of the Python community as well. 00:02:56.740 --> 00:03:00.920 And other interesting things like, oh, have I got one? 00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:01.900 I think I have. 00:03:01.900 --> 00:03:07.100 BBC Micro:bit was something that I was involved in and stuff like that. 00:03:07.100 --> 00:03:08.440 So, yep, that's me. 00:03:08.440 --> 00:03:10.480 But right now I'm doing PyScript. 00:03:10.480 --> 00:03:13.360 And I am joined by my esteemed colleague, Fabio. 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:14.880 Thank you, Nicholas. 00:03:14.880 --> 00:03:19.980 Well, as you can tell, I work with Nicholas at Anaconda, creator of PyScript. 00:03:19.980 --> 00:03:23.360 Been in the community for a long time as well. 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:24.180 Probably not. 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:26.420 Let's not focus on numbers or years. 00:03:26.420 --> 00:03:32.100 So I'm very interested in, just like Nicholas, Python for education as well. 00:03:32.100 --> 00:03:37.780 And the whole community aspect of it, which is mostly why I am here, I would say. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:41.520 So I've been involved in a lot of community things. 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.620 I was chairman of EuroPython for, I think, five, six years. 00:03:45.620 --> 00:03:51.020 Then chair of Python Italy, co-founder of Python Italia, et cetera. 00:03:51.020 --> 00:03:54.740 Always loved the community aspect of Python. 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:55.900 And happy to be here. 00:03:55.900 --> 00:03:57.000 Thank you for having us. 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.520 Yeah, it's great to have you as always. 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:03.520 You both mentioned having an interest or background or both in education. 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:09.720 And Nicholas, I think probably the high watermark is probably the BBC micro:bit, which touched, 00:04:09.720 --> 00:04:16.020 you know, the lives of more students than, you know, almost any other regular school teacher 00:04:16.020 --> 00:04:18.860 by a massive, massive margin, millions of kids. 00:04:18.860 --> 00:04:19.360 That's amazing. 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.820 But I think another angle here, teaching people to work with Python and getting them started in 00:04:23.820 --> 00:04:28.980 programming from going from I have this idea or I've learned what I got to do in programming 00:04:28.980 --> 00:04:33.480 until I can make it happen on a machine that is not set up for programming necessarily. 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:35.700 That gap is pretty far with Python. 00:04:35.700 --> 00:04:37.580 And it's pretty far with most languages, right? 00:04:37.580 --> 00:04:41.520 Like you want to do Ruby, probably got to set up some kind of Ruby thing. 00:04:41.520 --> 00:04:43.980 You want to do Java, a bunch of stuff there, right? 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:50.000 But being able to do it in your browser or something, you just open a page and run it 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.780 like there's this educational empowering aspect to it. 00:04:52.780 --> 00:04:53.780 Absolutely. 00:04:53.780 --> 00:05:01.280 And you wouldn't believe the interesting situations that teachers have to work in at school and, 00:05:01.280 --> 00:05:05.280 you know, locked down computers and things like that where their sys admins won't install 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:11.840 Python or any other kind of programming language, despite here in the UK and all over the US programming 00:05:11.840 --> 00:05:14.900 being part of the curriculum and it's mandated in the national curriculum here. 00:05:14.900 --> 00:05:20.240 And I was in a call yesterday with someone who just told me that the Norwegians have now got programming 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:22.100 mandatory in their national curriculum. 00:05:22.100 --> 00:05:24.900 And nobody seems to have told the school admins this. 00:05:24.900 --> 00:05:29.120 So what's the piece of software that was running on everybody's computer in the school? 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:30.320 It's a browser. 00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:32.880 So I see where this conversation is going. 00:05:32.880 --> 00:05:36.720 Wouldn't it be great if you had Python that ran in the browser? 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.840 It would solve all your installation problems if you're an educator. 00:05:39.840 --> 00:05:40.320 Yeah. 00:05:40.320 --> 00:05:46.800 I mean, how much of JavaScript's rise to fame and continued, not quite dominance, but almost certainly 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.720 in the front inside dominance has to do just with the fact that it's possible. 00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:51.880 Yes. 00:05:51.880 --> 00:05:52.880 Yes. 00:05:52.880 --> 00:05:53.880 Totally. 00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:54.880 It's not necessarily the best. 00:05:54.880 --> 00:05:58.000 It's not necessarily what people want, at least not in the early days, but it's possible. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:59.940 And, and that's, it's a lot of things. 00:05:59.940 --> 00:06:04.940 I think, you know, JavaScript has lots of really wonderful aspects to it. 00:06:04.940 --> 00:06:10.060 I've been using JavaScript for almost 20 years, but it's certainly not a beginner friendly 00:06:10.060 --> 00:06:10.940 language. 00:06:10.940 --> 00:06:13.660 I think you could say that with some confidence. 00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:19.980 You could try teaching it to beginners, but with all the coercion rules and gotchas that 00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:24.940 make sense if you understand JavaScript, but it's quite a journey to get you to that understanding. 00:06:24.940 --> 00:06:29.660 With all of that, it's hard enough just to sort of concentrate on getting Hello World working 00:06:29.660 --> 00:06:30.620 and things like that. 00:06:30.620 --> 00:06:36.620 Just a simple proof of concept to show that your development environment is working. 00:06:36.620 --> 00:06:41.740 But if a language that you're using is the equivalent of trying to teach a five year old 00:06:41.740 --> 00:06:45.740 beginner violinist with a Stradivarius, they're not going to kind of get it. 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:46.740 Okay. 00:06:46.740 --> 00:06:47.740 Yeah. 00:06:47.740 --> 00:06:52.940 You give them an instrument that helps them take the first steps into programming and Python 00:06:52.940 --> 00:06:54.300 as a programming language. 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:58.380 And this is at the core of Yido's mission at the very beginning. 00:06:58.380 --> 00:07:01.500 A, B, C, the language that he based it off was a teaching language. 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:08.300 So education and learning and teaching and making sure that Python is teachable is a part of the DNA, 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:09.500 which is a one. 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:09.500 It is. 00:07:09.500 --> 00:07:11.500 It's been around since 1989, I guess. 00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:11.500 Yeah. 00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:12.620 You put it that way, hasn't it? 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:12.620 Yeah. 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:18.140 That is the striking difference, honestly, between Python and almost all languages today. 00:07:18.140 --> 00:07:18.460 Right? 00:07:18.460 --> 00:07:23.980 Like why basic was super popular, why JavaScript is super popular, etc. 00:07:23.980 --> 00:07:25.420 Because it's your only option. 00:07:25.420 --> 00:07:25.420 Right? 00:07:25.420 --> 00:07:26.460 And it's the thing. 00:07:26.460 --> 00:07:31.180 Or if not, it's the thing that you have right away there already installed for you. 00:07:31.180 --> 00:07:35.580 And you don't have to go through the pain of trying to download things, install on your system, 00:07:35.580 --> 00:07:36.300 and whatnot. 00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:39.420 Python, on the contrary, it's very interesting. 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:45.420 It's the most popular language, but it's because people in specific domain areas chose Python 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:50.540 because it was the easiest and the most expressive and tailored for education. 00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:56.780 And then it started competing with very specific languages that were born to do specific things. 00:07:56.780 --> 00:07:59.100 Like, you know, R is another example. 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:02.060 Like, R was born with that goal. 00:08:02.060 --> 00:08:04.220 And that's why it's so good at it. 00:08:04.220 --> 00:08:07.180 Python just happens to be very easy to understand. 00:08:07.180 --> 00:08:11.180 So data scientists and people adopt it, which is great. 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:15.260 Python actually, just to close, Python actually is the most popular language, 00:08:15.260 --> 00:08:20.860 but it has a horrible story for mobile and browser and tablets. 00:08:20.860 --> 00:08:24.380 The most popular hardware and software on earth. 00:08:24.380 --> 00:08:24.780 Right? 00:08:24.780 --> 00:08:27.580 And it's still the most popular, which is mind blowing. 00:08:27.580 --> 00:08:28.140 Yeah. 00:08:28.140 --> 00:08:28.620 Yeah. 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:30.540 So what it would be if it were good on both, right? 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:31.660 Yeah, quite. 00:08:31.660 --> 00:08:40.300 But what you say, Fabio, it reminds me of a keynote, maybe the pre-COVID keynote at PyCon US, 00:08:40.300 --> 00:08:42.220 where I think one of the keynotes said, 00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:45.500 Python is the world's best second best language. 00:08:45.500 --> 00:08:48.140 And I think that's kind of the essence of what you've just said. 00:08:48.140 --> 00:08:53.020 R is great for doing stats and maths and things, but so is Python. 00:08:53.020 --> 00:08:59.820 Might not be up there with R for very specialist niche mathematical things, but Python's good enough. 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:03.100 And because it's easy to learn, folks are going to go fly with that. 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:03.420 Yeah. 00:09:03.420 --> 00:09:09.740 I think building on what you said, Fabio, I think one of the really unique aspects of Python, 00:09:09.740 --> 00:09:14.860 Python, you know, compare this to like visual basic or the super simple programming languages 00:09:14.860 --> 00:09:19.020 like scratch or the super high end ones like C++ and Rust. 00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:21.580 Python is a full spectrum language. 00:09:21.580 --> 00:09:25.580 Like you can start really easy with a super partial understanding. 00:09:25.580 --> 00:09:30.380 You don't even know what classes are, but you can put six lines together and you can do cool stuff. 00:09:30.380 --> 00:09:32.780 That's like scratch and basic and stuff. 00:09:32.780 --> 00:09:38.700 But those languages run out of real programming ideas really soon where you just keep growing into Python 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:40.780 until you get to the C++ and Rust style. 00:09:40.780 --> 00:09:46.940 Conversely, if you want to start with C++ or Rust, like you don't want to teach a beginning what avoid star star is. 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:51.020 You know, like that's down the road, but like you're hit with that kind of stuff soon. 00:09:51.020 --> 00:09:54.140 So I think that that's a little bit of its magic as well. 00:09:54.140 --> 00:10:09.660 And what you all are doing to bring that magic to front end of the web world and kind of through the transitive property a little bit through progressive web apps to things that run in really good ways on mobile and tablet as well. 00:10:09.660 --> 00:10:12.780 There's it really unlocks a lot and I'm super excited for it. 00:10:12.780 --> 00:10:19.820 So I know I've had you on before to talk about this, but I'm sure there's some folks out there like this sounds amazing. 00:10:19.820 --> 00:10:27.020 What is this angle bracket Python, Python, Python script in my HTML? 00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:28.460 What is this PyScript stuff? 00:10:28.460 --> 00:10:29.660 Tell us about it. 00:10:29.660 --> 00:10:29.900 Cool. 00:10:29.900 --> 00:10:32.300 Let me give you one minute. 00:10:32.300 --> 00:10:39.580 So basically PyScript is a platform that allows users to create applications or forms. 00:10:39.580 --> 00:10:43.580 frameworks on top of it and supports Python as a language. 00:10:43.580 --> 00:10:49.340 And it basically uses the browser as technology as its vector. 00:10:49.340 --> 00:10:49.740 Right. 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:52.700 It treats the browser as almost like a virtual machine. 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:53.980 It can move around. 00:10:53.980 --> 00:11:09.500 And then because of the current stack around WASM WebAssembly on the browser technology, we are now able to run pipeline inside, you know, either WASI or MScripten, which are just implementations of WebAssembly on the browser. 00:11:09.500 --> 00:11:13.340 And PyScript sits on top of interpreters. 00:11:13.340 --> 00:11:21.660 We have the browser WebAssembly and then a Python implementation, Pyodide or MicroPython or other things like this. 00:11:21.660 --> 00:11:33.820 And PyScript goes on top by providing a friendly interface, higher level APIs that are, you know, Pythonic and friendly, allows extensibility with plugins and things like this to create an ecosystem. 00:11:33.820 --> 00:11:37.980 And basically what we want to do is reuse the ecosystem. 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:41.820 As much as we can, we don't want to reinvent anything. 00:11:41.820 --> 00:11:53.980 So actually, that's one of the things that I'm most proud of it during this first year, which is I think we've made really good progress in helping other projects that are, you know, developing and making Python happen on the browser. 00:11:53.980 --> 00:12:05.980 Wrong story short, PyScript allows you through those tags, PyScript or PyConfig or PyRaple to define, you know, what's my environment, what packages I want to install and whatnot. 00:12:05.980 --> 00:12:12.980 And then with the PyScript script, you can define scripts that run your application and then just use it. 00:12:12.980 --> 00:12:15.980 You don't need to install anything to download anything. 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:16.980 It just works on the browser. 00:12:16.980 --> 00:12:17.980 Yeah, excellent. 00:12:17.980 --> 00:12:23.980 I think maybe let me just give one more piece, one more resource for folks out there who might be interested. 00:12:23.980 --> 00:12:26.980 Have you all seen the birth and death of the office script by Gabriel? 00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:27.980 Yeah. 00:12:27.980 --> 00:12:28.980 Do you see that? 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:29.980 I was there when you gave it. 00:12:29.980 --> 00:12:30.980 Oh, my gosh. 00:12:30.980 --> 00:12:31.980 Amazing. 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:32.980 What was the crowd's reaction like? 00:12:32.980 --> 00:12:34.980 Oh, we were just rolling around. 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:35.980 It laughed. 00:12:35.980 --> 00:12:36.980 Yeah, it was great. 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:37.980 It's great delivery. 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:38.980 Yeah. 00:12:38.980 --> 00:12:44.980 So this is a, let's see, 15 minutes, you know, 30 minute presentation he gave at PyCon 2014. 00:12:44.980 --> 00:12:49.980 So quite, quite outdated in like web technology evolution speed. 00:12:49.980 --> 00:13:01.980 But I throw this out there because it's both an amazing comedy skit, but also super nice buildup of how you got to places like now within script in and WebAssembly. 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:06.980 And how do you take C code like CPython and run it on top of the browser on the front end? 00:13:06.980 --> 00:13:07.980 So people are interested. 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:10.980 They can, you know, they are like, what is all this magic? 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:13.980 You can have both a really good laugh and watch that. 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:14.980 That was good. 00:13:14.980 --> 00:13:24.980 So with PyScript, you can write just like in JavaScript, you can write JavaScript or in this case, Python in the browser, right? 00:13:24.980 --> 00:13:29.980 Like you could just like you could say angle bracket JavaScript and just start writing JavaScript code. 00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:31.980 Here you can say py dash script. 00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:35.980 You can say print, you know, hello from Python or whatever. 00:13:35.980 --> 00:13:36.980 And it'll run. 00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:39.980 But you can also have more well structured applications, right? 00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:40.980 Yes. 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:44.980 I think I might even lean so far saying you should have more well structured applications. 00:13:44.980 --> 00:13:45.980 Yeah. 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:45.980 What do you all think? 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:54.980 One thing about PyScript and that we are actually trying to work a lot on it about it is that it gives a lot of freedom, as you said, right? 00:13:54.980 --> 00:13:55.980 You can put tags in there. 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.980 It's just HTML. 00:13:57.980 --> 00:14:04.980 So everything you have access to in an HTML page, you should have access to with PyScript as well. 00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:16.980 So like your tags in the page, your scripts, if you loaded anything in your JavaScript, you know, scope, you can import those things in PyScript and say from JavaScript import this and then just run. 00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:22.980 Actually, one of the things that we're working right now is actually going to explode that even more. 00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:24.980 And we're going to demo later. 00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:38.980 We have currently a next branch where we are redesigning the core of PyScript and making it smaller, fully web based, you know, fixing most of the bugs and the very crappy code that I wrote at the beginning. 00:14:38.980 --> 00:14:39.980 Right. 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:47.980 And we had an amazing addition to the team from Andrea, who's been in tech tech and on the web for a lifetime. 00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:48.980 And he he's amazing. 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:51.980 And he's bringing that aspect that we lacked and the team. 00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:53.980 Well, you know, we have native point of view. 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:54.980 We will. 00:14:54.980 --> 00:14:56.980 Well, Python is and Python geeks. 00:14:56.980 --> 00:14:57.980 So we missed that. 00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:04.980 This portion of talk Python to me is brought to you by JetBrains and PyCharm. 00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:09.980 Are you a data scientist or a web developer looking to take your projects to the next level? 00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:11.980 Well, I have the perfect tool for you. 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:12.980 PyCharm. 00:15:12.980 --> 00:15:20.980 PyCharm is a powerful integrated development environment that empowers developers and data scientists like us to write clean and efficient code with ease. 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:25.980 Whether you're analyzing complex data sets or building dynamic web applications. 00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:30.980 PyCharm has got you covered with its intuitive interface and robust features. 00:15:30.980 --> 00:15:34.980 You can boost your productivity and bring your ideas to life faster than ever before. 00:15:34.980 --> 00:15:40.980 For data scientists, PyCharm offers seamless integration with popular libraries like NumPy, Pandas and Matplotlib. 00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:47.980 You can explore, visualize and manipulate data effortlessly, unlocking valuable insights with just a few lines of code. 00:15:47.980 --> 00:15:52.980 And for us web developers, PyCharm provides a rich set of tools to streamline your workflow. 00:15:52.980 --> 00:16:01.980 From intelligent code completion to advanced debugging capabilities, PyCharm helps you write clean, scalable code that powers stunning web applications. 00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:09.980 Plus, PyCharm's support for popular frameworks like Django, FastAPI and React make it a breeze to build and deploy your web projects. 00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:14.980 It's time to say goodbye to tedious configuration and hello to rapid development. 00:16:14.980 --> 00:16:16.980 But wait, there's more! 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:24.980 With PyCharm, you get even more advanced features like remote development, database integration, and version control, ensuring your projects stay organized and secure. 00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:30.980 So whether you're diving into data science or shaping the future of the web, PyCharm is your go-to tool. 00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:32.980 Join me and try PyCharm today. 00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:43.980 Just visit talkpython.fm/done-with-pycharm, links in your show notes, and experience the power of PyCharm firsthand for three months free. 00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:46.980 PyCharm, it's how I get work done. 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:47.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:48.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:49.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:50.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:50.980 --> 00:16:51.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:51.980 --> 00:16:52.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:52.980 --> 00:16:53.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:53.980 --> 00:16:54.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:54.980 --> 00:16:55.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:56.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:56.980 --> 00:16:57.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:57.980 --> 00:16:58.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:58.980 --> 00:16:59.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:00.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:00.980 --> 00:17:01.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:02.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:03.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:04.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:05.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:06.980 I think it's a really good idea. 00:17:06.980 --> 00:17:10.980 to almost do anything with any language and deploy anywhere. 00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:11.980 Right? 00:17:11.980 --> 00:17:13.980 It's beyond Python. 00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:17.980 Even if Python is the primary citizen there, 00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:20.980 we want to make sure that we are locking everything 00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:22.980 for all the users. 00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:23.980 Which is hard. 00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:24.980 Yeah, I'm sure it is. 00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:29.980 Do you see an analogy with Jupyter going from IPython notebooks 00:17:29.980 --> 00:17:33.980 to Jupyter notebooks and starting to bring on a broader view 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:36.980 of the ecosystem, but still kind of being Python at heart? 00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:39.980 Yeah, I think so in a different way than Jupyter. 00:17:39.980 --> 00:17:44.980 Jupyter has always been very self-contained into the notebook itself 00:17:44.980 --> 00:17:49.980 and the programming paradigm that the notebook brings with it. 00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:54.980 You know, it's very, it's an exploration tool rather than editor authoring 00:17:54.980 --> 00:17:55.980 to it. 00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:58.980 And then with JupyterLab, it evolved in different things as well. 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.980 I think PyScript has maybe the opposite problem. 00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:06.980 We're too open, which is hard for actually our, 00:18:06.980 --> 00:18:10.980 user base that we want to, we set PyScript as for the 99%. 00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.980 We need to do a lot of hard work to make it happen. 00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:13.980 Nicholas. 00:18:13.980 --> 00:18:16.980 Well, this is a really great point that Fabio is making. 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:20.980 And you've got to remember the keyword here is that PyScript is a platform. 00:18:20.980 --> 00:18:21.980 Now it's a platform. 00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:25.980 You know, the layers of that platform were articulated by Fabio. 00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:29.980 You know, at the bottom is WebAssembly, which runs in your browser and you can compile, 00:18:29.980 --> 00:18:35.980 you know, mscripten or other things can sort of work on top of that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:18:35.980 --> 00:18:36.980 And then you get PyScript. 00:18:36.980 --> 00:18:37.980 Okay. 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:43.980 So with PyScript, we hope, and we're doing this ourselves to build frameworks on top of that. 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:45.980 So what's the difference between a framework and a platform? 00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:50.980 If the platform is like the foundational stuff that gives you the core verbs and nouns and things. 00:18:50.980 --> 00:18:51.980 Okay. 00:18:51.980 --> 00:18:55.980 The framework is perhaps focused on a particular problem that you're trying to solve. 00:18:55.980 --> 00:19:00.980 Like in the classic Python world, you know, Django and Flask are web frameworks. 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:01.980 Okay. 00:19:01.980 --> 00:19:06.980 You have a, you know, matplotlib is a kind of like a framework for creating graphs and things like that. 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:17.980 And so we expect people to reuse some of these things, because this is another aspect of having Python in the browser is that you also bring the whole of the Python ecosystem into the browser as well. 00:19:17.980 --> 00:19:22.980 And then all the modules and the things like that, that Python brings. 00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:32.980 So we hope, and we're, we're building this sort of stuff and we'll probably come onto that later in this conversation, but we hope the community, because this is an open source project as well. 00:19:32.980 --> 00:19:40.980 Let's not forget the community come along and they start building cool things on top of, of PyScript frameworks and applications and things. 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:44.980 So, so that they surprise us and delight us and make us go. 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:50.980 And this is one of the ways that I would measure our success is that if somebody turns up and goes, I built this thing. 00:19:50.980 --> 00:19:54.980 And I go, oh man, I never thought anyone would do that with PyScript. 00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:55.980 Yeah. 00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:58.980 When we get to that, then I know we're rocking. 00:19:58.980 --> 00:19:59.980 Yeah. 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:01.980 You've queued up a nice comment from the audience here. 00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:04.980 Sarah says I'm exploring Vue JS. 00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:06.980 Shall I wait and use PyScript in my app? 00:20:06.980 --> 00:20:07.980 Great question. 00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:15.980 I think we're coming close to a world where the two play well together, actually very well together. 00:20:15.980 --> 00:20:22.980 So like we'll talk about later, later about PyScript.com, which is an additional thing on top of PyScript. 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:24.980 And we're using Vue there too, right? 00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:29.980 Like Vue is a great tool for building, you know, front end apps and whatnot. 00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:35.980 But I hope, yeah, I hope in the future we will have Vue written in Python or something similar, which is more Pythonic. 00:20:35.980 --> 00:20:43.980 So I say here's the thing for Sarah to understand is that because Python's in the browser, it has access to the JavaScript context. 00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:46.980 So you could start to mix and match. 00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:52.980 You know, you've got Vue stuff happening in JavaScript and you've got Python stuff that could be working in concert with it as well. 00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:54.980 You know, mix it up a bit. 00:20:54.980 --> 00:20:55.980 I don't know. 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:56.980 This is an early part of the journey. 00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:01.980 Sarah, you go away and check this out and tell us what you find, you know, knock yourself out. 00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:02.980 Yeah. 00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:03.980 Yeah, absolutely. 00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:04.980 I'll keep repeating this. 00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:09.980 Anyone that has questions or specific use cases or want to contribute, reach out. 00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:13.980 We want to hear from you and we are very welcoming. 00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:14.980 And so come be a contributor. 00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:15.980 Super. 00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:16.980 Yeah. 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:18.980 And just, you know, shout out to Anaconda, Anaconda Inc. 00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:25.980 for making this possible for you all to be working on this in a more dedicated way instead of just really passionate. 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:26.980 I've got an hour a day I can spend on it. 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:33.980 But like legitimately, you can be more responsive and put yourself a little more out there because it's not like it. 00:21:33.980 --> 00:21:36.980 It takes away from that one hour you could add features with. 00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:37.980 I agree. 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:38.980 Yeah. 00:21:38.980 --> 00:21:42.980 I would say like we're very lucky and very thankful to Anaconda to support this. 00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:43.980 It's a huge effort. 00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:44.980 So, yeah. 00:21:44.980 --> 00:21:49.980 I would add one more possibility out there for folks in Sarah's situation. 00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:54.980 I would love to see PyView or something like really ready to work with it. 00:21:54.980 --> 00:22:02.980 I know the MicroPython work I'm about to ask you, just about to ask you all about for a follow up on, makes that really a possible case. 00:22:02.980 --> 00:22:07.980 But if you're really just like, it's got to be some JavaScript framework, give HTMLX a look. 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:12.980 It's really, really nice that you can just keep writing Python. 00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:14.980 You got to do on the server and it's kind of a little async type of thing. 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:17.980 But that's how a lot of the view stuff happens anyway. 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:25.980 So if PyScript weren't the answer, maybe consider HTMLX before you decide like it's all front end and React and just a bunch of APIs. 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:26.980 That's really nice stuff. 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:26.980 All right. 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:27.980 Back to PyScript. 00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:30.980 What's the story of the MicroPython thing that we spoke about last time? 00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:31.980 Okay. 00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:33.980 So let's just recap. 00:22:33.980 --> 00:22:41.980 What happened last time was I think I just finished doing the proof of concepts and we had MicroPython kind of running. 00:22:41.980 --> 00:22:42.980 Okay. 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:45.980 And that was, that was late last year, wasn't it? 00:22:45.980 --> 00:22:46.980 Yeah, it was like six months ago or so. 00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:47.980 Yeah. 00:22:47.980 --> 00:22:48.980 Just about. 00:22:48.980 --> 00:22:49.980 Yeah. 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:50.980 Yeah. 00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:51.980 Yeah. 00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:52.980 If you can get, yeah. 00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:53.980 Cause we had Brett on the call as well. 00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:54.980 I remember now. 00:22:54.980 --> 00:22:58.980 If you can get MicroPython running by the middle of next year, it's going to be a kind of hallelujah moment. 00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.980 You know, the crowds will part, the angels will sing and the sun will shine and all of this sort of stuff. 00:23:02.980 --> 00:23:03.980 Yeah. 00:23:03.980 --> 00:23:04.980 Cats and dogs living together, all that. 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:05.980 Yeah, exactly. 00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.980 Exactly. 00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:07.980 Sharks with lasers, that sort of thing. 00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:09.980 And who wouldn't want that? 00:23:09.980 --> 00:23:11.980 And so what's happened in the intervening six months? 00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:14.980 So I think two important things have happened. 00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:18.980 The first one is the re-architecting of PyScript. 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:23.980 And just to reinforce what Fabio said. 00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:31.980 Maybe six months ago, when we said PyScript is Python in the browser, the emphasis was on Python and not so much in the browser. 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:32.980 Okay. 00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:36.980 Because we've been joined, you know, our colleague Andrea is very much of the web world. 00:23:36.980 --> 00:23:41.980 In fact, his nickname inside the team is Web Yoda for a very good reason. 00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:42.980 Okay. 00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:53.980 It's now, you know, Python and we have in the browser has been kind of worked on and we've been looking at how that sort of works and how these two sort of things mesh together. 00:23:53.980 --> 00:24:05.980 Because Andrea is frankly incredible at this sort of stuff and he's kind of off the web and he knows the idioms and he knows the APIs and he knows how the browsers work and things like that. 00:24:05.980 --> 00:24:09.980 The actual PyScript core that's coming next is very small and very flexible. 00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:11.980 So that's the first sort of pillar of this. 00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.980 Second pillar goes by the name of Damien. 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:16.980 We all know and love in Melbourne. 00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:18.980 And, you know, Damien's a buddy. 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:19.980 We worked on the micro bit together. 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:22.980 That's how we first got to know each other. 00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:29.980 And clearly, I don't think in a million years, Damien imagined that micro Python would be running on a browser. 00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:32.980 That's completely the opposite end of the computing spectrum. 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:37.980 Watch, watch micro Python become the most popular base to run Python globally. 00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:39.980 It easily could if it goes out on the web. 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:40.980 Exactly. 00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:41.980 Now, here's the thing. 00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:48.980 Because Pyodide is CPython compiled to WebAssembly and that's, we started with PySquid. 00:24:48.980 --> 00:24:55.980 But depending on how you build it, it's around 11 megabytes if you had the whole everything but the kitchen sink in there. 00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:55.980 Okay. 00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.980 And that's a lot for a web page. 00:24:57.980 --> 00:24:58.980 Okay. 00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:05.980 I know everybody says the New York Times is however many megabytes it is, but still 11 megs is large. 00:25:05.980 --> 00:25:08.980 And it doesn't play well with these black mirrors that we carry around in our pocket. 00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:15.980 Micro Python, I noticed today, thanks to compression and other things, it's down to 170k. 00:25:15.980 --> 00:25:17.980 Let's deliver into the browser. 00:25:17.980 --> 00:25:23.980 And with the 50, 50 plus 50 odd K for the core of PyScript. 00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:24.980 And then we're going to do the next thing. 00:25:24.980 --> 00:25:34.980 We have an incredible, it's around half a megabyte to get the thing into your browser, which I think it was Simon Willis and said that's smaller than some hero images you get on websites. 00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:35.980 Okay. 00:25:35.980 --> 00:25:37.980 So you get a development environment. 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:40.980 So we reached out to Damien and Damien's been working with us. 00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:50.980 He'd be doing an awful lot of work, impeccable work, excellent work to make sure that the story of MicroPython in the browser is that it's kind of like a first class Python. 00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:51.980 Okay. 00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:58.980 So he has implemented the FFI, the foreign function interface between Python and the JavaScript context. 00:25:58.980 --> 00:25:59.980 Okay. 00:25:59.980 --> 00:26:02.980 It's the same sort of API as you get in Pyodide. 00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:03.980 Okay. 00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:04.980 So it's familiar. 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:05.980 Okay. 00:26:05.980 --> 00:26:07.980 So you import JS and then you're away. 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:09.980 You're referencing things in the land of JavaScript. 00:26:09.980 --> 00:26:14.980 To be clear for people listening, that means you can hook button click events. 00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:18.980 You can hook document ready mouse, like in Python. 00:26:18.980 --> 00:26:19.980 What APIs? 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:19.980 Functions. 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:20.980 Functions. 00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:21.980 Yep. 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.980 I want to play some audio. 00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.980 There's an audio API built into the web, into the browser. 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:32.980 I can import from import JS and then do JS.audio as a class to instantiate something to then play. 00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:37.980 It's just super easy and a real joy to use, but it starts like that. 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:43.980 And this is, I think the key aspects of the difference between MicroPython and Pyodide. 00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:45.980 Pyodide gives you all of Python. 00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:46.980 Okay. 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:50.980 So you want to do some data science or you want to bring in some CPython module to work in the browser. 00:26:50.980 --> 00:26:51.980 You use Pyodide. 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:59.980 But if you want something Python-ish and it's fast and it goes like the clappers and it's really quick to load, then MicroPython is the thing for you. 00:26:59.980 --> 00:27:05.980 If you want to start manipulating the DOM and working with what the browser makes available to you. 00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:11.980 And so to answer Sarah's point, maybe MicroPython is the thing that you should be using to coordinate with that. 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:13.980 I think it certainly is an alternative to Vue. 00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:14.980 It would be. 00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:15.980 Yeah. 00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:39.980 I think it's really great to see projects like MicroPython coming together with Pyodide and PyScript all talking, hey, how can we make things be, share the best parts of each project and have a common interface to interface JavaScript? 00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:41.980 How can we make this happen? 00:27:41.980 --> 00:27:44.980 How can we support MicroPython in PyScript? 00:27:44.980 --> 00:27:57.980 And so it was, I really need to thank Damien, Hood, Roman from those projects to be so nice and so easy to work with and willing to just, yeah, let's talk about it. 00:27:57.980 --> 00:27:59.980 Let's see what's best for the community. 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:01.980 And yeah, great, great work. 00:28:01.980 --> 00:28:03.980 Yeah, it's an absolute joy. 00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:05.980 And I'll tell you a funny story. 00:28:05.980 --> 00:28:10.980 Just after Christmas, we met up the PyScript team in real life for the first time. 00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:14.980 And because we were all in the same place and we had Hood with us, Hood has since joined the team. 00:28:14.980 --> 00:28:23.980 And because of time zones, we were all able to drop onto a call with Damien and having Hood and Damien talk together for the first time. 00:28:23.980 --> 00:28:28.980 You'd think, you know, these are exceptionally gifted engineers. 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:29.980 Okay. 00:28:29.980 --> 00:28:40.980 And after maybe, I don't know, two minutes of small talk, they were talking about, I don't know, the intricacies of garbage collection in the WebAssembly context. 00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:47.980 And, you know, the whole kind of conversation just went, they exploded off into the technical sort of ether as it were. 00:28:47.980 --> 00:28:56.980 But what I want to highlight is that PyScript has sort of lit a fuse underneath and these projects working together. 00:28:56.980 --> 00:28:59.980 And it's so wonderful to see the open source community working in the way that it should. 00:28:59.980 --> 00:29:10.980 You know, people bringing the best themselves and being very humble and listening and being compassionate to other people when they, when there are differences of opinion and there are always differences of opinion. 00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:17.980 One of the things that I take away from this project is the amount of fun I have working on this, that people pay me to do this is incredible. 00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:18.980 So. 00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:19.980 That's awesome. 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:24.980 This portion of Talk Python To Me is brought to you by Sentry. 00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:33.980 You know Sentry for their error tracking service, but did you know you can take that all the way through your multi-tiered and distributed app with their distributed tracing feature? 00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:44.980 Distributed tracing is a debugging technique that involves tracking requests of your system starting from the very beginning, like a user action, all the way to the backend, database and third party services. 00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:50.980 This can help you identify if the cause of an error in one project is due to the error in another. 00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:55.980 Every system can benefit from distributed tracing, but they're especially useful for microservices. 00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:58.980 In this architecture, logs won't give you the full picture. 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:01.980 So you can't debug every request in full just by reading the logs. 00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:10.980 Distributed tracing with a platform like Sentry gives you a visual overview about which services were called during the execution of certain requests. 00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:17.980 Aside from debugging and visualizing your architecture, distributed tracing also helps you identify performance bottlenecks. 00:30:17.980 --> 00:30:26.980 Through a visual like a Gantt chart, you can see if a particular span in your stack took longer than expected and how it could be causing slowdowns in other parts of your app. 00:30:26.980 --> 00:30:31.980 Learn more and see some examples in the tracing section at docs.Sentry.io. 00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:35.980 To take advantage of all the features of the Sentry platform, just create your free account. 00:30:35.980 --> 00:30:44.980 And for all of you Talk Python listeners, use the code TALKPYTHON, all one word, and you'll activate a free month of their premium paid features. 00:30:44.980 --> 00:30:48.980 Get started today at talkpython.fm/sentry-trace. 00:30:48.980 --> 00:30:52.980 That link is in your podcast player show notes and the episode page. 00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:55.980 Thank you to Sentry for supporting Talk Python To Me. 00:30:55.980 --> 00:31:03.980 We kind of introduced the possibility and what we can do with PyScript pretty well, but I can't resist showing this video here. 00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:11.980 So, Nicholas, you have a one minute video, which I'm going to link to, that shows Python running in the browser, which is great. 00:31:11.980 --> 00:31:18.980 And then very nicely, you have it running on a mobile phone, which is really nice. 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:19.980 Yeah. 00:31:19.980 --> 00:31:20.980 Tell people where it runs next. 00:31:20.980 --> 00:31:21.980 In a car. 00:31:21.980 --> 00:31:26.980 So, Tesla is basically a computer on wheels and it has a browser built in. 00:31:26.980 --> 00:31:28.980 This loosey-goosey app. 00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:30.980 A colleague of mine, you know, clearly I'm British. 00:31:30.980 --> 00:31:33.980 And she said to me, you've got to be loosey-goosey about this. 00:31:33.980 --> 00:31:34.980 She's from Boston. 00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:37.980 And I was like, what on earth is loosey-goosey? 00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:38.980 And she explained. 00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:42.980 And since then I've been getting loosey-goosey into all of these kind of places, just to pull her leg a little bit. 00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:49.980 You click on the goose and it uses the underlying browser's audio API to go honk, right? 00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:51.980 So, it's just honking on demand. 00:31:51.980 --> 00:31:57.980 And the fact that you can get a car to honk like a goose kind of seems kind of appropriate in a funny sort of way. 00:31:57.980 --> 00:31:58.980 It certainly is for Teslas. 00:31:58.980 --> 00:31:59.980 Yeah, yeah. 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:00.980 Exactly. 00:32:00.980 --> 00:32:01.980 Exactly. 00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:02.980 They already make weird noises. 00:32:02.980 --> 00:32:06.980 This is MicroPython running on the Tesla, playing goosey. 00:32:06.980 --> 00:32:07.980 I love it. 00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:08.980 Hang on a mobile. 00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:09.980 Yeah. 00:32:09.980 --> 00:32:14.980 So, maybe the next thing that we could do here is we could talk about one of the bigger announcements that you had recently. 00:32:14.980 --> 00:32:19.980 So, there's probably two plus the shift in API and the changes there. 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:23.980 But one, whoever wants to take this is PyScript.com. 00:32:23.980 --> 00:32:25.980 Yeah, I can talk real quick about it. 00:32:25.980 --> 00:32:26.980 Here's the beginning. 00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:29.980 Part of the vision when we started was, okay, cool. 00:32:29.980 --> 00:32:32.980 PyScript needs to be open source and everything always. 00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:33.980 How can we make it? 00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:35.980 It's on the browser, right? 00:32:35.980 --> 00:32:43.980 Like, how can we make it even easier for people to just hop in somewhere, start a project and just share it with others. 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:47.980 And that was, okay, we need a product or something like this. 00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:52.980 So, we launched PyScript.com, which is a free service or a freemium service. 00:32:52.980 --> 00:33:04.980 Right now, we actually, the only option for paid features or anything like this is really just through being a founder, which is basically in the Kickstarter model, you want to support the project. 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:05.980 It really is what it is. 00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:08.980 A little bit like a GitHub sponsor, kind of. 00:33:08.980 --> 00:33:09.980 Yes. 00:33:09.980 --> 00:33:10.980 Yeah. 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:17.980 And we will always have a free tier with unlimited projects, unlimited ways you can share it, etc. 00:33:17.980 --> 00:33:24.980 And we're probably going to, we're going to have paid features for things that we're paying or things that make it worth, you know. 00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:31.980 But we want to have a place where people can just drop a snippet or a Python application, then share with others. 00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:55.980 Like, one thing that was super clear to me recently was after also the video of Nicolas was last keynote I gave in Columbia was, hey, how many of you, I asked the question, how many of you think you can write a Hello World application and then share with 30 people, not technical, like your mom, your family and others, and share with them within an hour. 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:56.980 Right. 00:33:56.980 --> 00:33:57.980 Hello World without complexity. 00:33:57.980 --> 00:33:58.980 Exactly. 00:33:58.980 --> 00:33:59.980 And then what? 00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:01.980 And people showed that raise their hands out of 450. 00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:02.980 Yeah. 00:34:02.980 --> 00:34:06.980 And it'll take a good chunk of that hour to do it, even for the ones who can do it. 00:34:06.980 --> 00:34:07.980 Yeah. 00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:08.980 Yes. 00:34:08.980 --> 00:34:12.980 Or even worse, like in a day, not many more raised their hands. 00:34:12.980 --> 00:34:13.980 Right. 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:18.980 The goal here is really like, you can just hop in, click, you know, start a new project. 00:34:18.980 --> 00:34:22.980 It's already conveniently already a Hello World application by default. 00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:23.980 Right. 00:34:23.980 --> 00:34:26.980 So, and by default, it's shareable anywhere. 00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:35.980 So all of a sudden you come from, hey, I'm not sure I can deploy the simplest app in the world to my audience and effectively to, it's just a matter of seconds. 00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:41.980 I just need to share the link and then can see, you know, they can see on mobile and things like this. 00:34:41.980 --> 00:34:42.980 Yeah. 00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:56.980 That's the striking thing that messaging that I think to me was clear that we're not doing a good job. Right. Like we're no, before PyScript, you could still deploy those things on mobile with Pyodide directly and stuff. But it wasn't that easy. 00:34:56.980 --> 00:34:57.980 Right. 00:34:57.980 --> 00:34:57.980 Right. 00:34:57.980 --> 00:34:58.980 Right. 00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:10.980 So Python adoption, Python and education, all of those use cases. That's why I really bag everyone. Talk about PyScript. And that's the value of sharing and spreading Python all over. 00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:24.980 Yeah. Let's look at one of these. So if you create an account, you log in, there's a trending in a featured set. So one of these is tic-tac-toe and I'll view the site that we can maybe talk about the code real quick. So I pulled this up in my browser. It's based on the Pyodide version. 00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:44.980 And down here you can, it does show the terminal just for people who are interested in the print statements, but you can just go play tic-tac-toe on yourself and, you know, end up, you just click crazy. I guess you'll win or something. Right. That was when this time, but it's, it shows the JavaScript interaction, the click down, the changing the DOM from Python, all those good things. Right. 00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:58.980 Yeah. And so you can go view the code for it. Maybe just, we could use this as a chance to just talk through a little bit of like how you're structuring this. Cause you've got a manifest, you've got a main.py, you've got an index.html. 00:35:58.980 --> 00:36:13.980 You come across an app that's written in with pyScript.com and you want to know how does it work? You know, the classic, you know, view source, the number of people who said I became a software engineer because in the nineties, when I was a teenager, I could right click view source and figure out what, okay, that's that. Okay. 00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:19.980 So I just wanted to highlight that that was, that was there. Any pyScript.com app, you'll be able to see the, see the source. 00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:20.980 Excellent. And you can copy. 00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:29.980 Yeah. And you also have a copy. Yeah, exactly. We're on the same page. There's a copy of the project, which has got like, like a clone this to my account and I'll play with it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 00:36:29.980 --> 00:36:41.980 Yeah. That's actually one thing that we've been struggling with terminology, trying to, do we use the usual geek technology, terminology, or we use, you know, user friendly, should we use copy or fork? 00:36:41.980 --> 00:36:53.980 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So tell people quickly about how, what you can do with pyScript.com, kind of how it works. It's a little bit like replet, but really Python focused, right? 00:36:53.980 --> 00:37:13.980 Yes. It's very similar to replet or, you know, code pen and other services like these, that the idea is that you have your space where you host your project. We have an editor right now. We're working also on creating views that are more user friendly. And you don't need to know about HTML or anything like that. Just hop in. 00:37:13.980 --> 00:37:29.980 But the nice thing about this is with any project, you can just hop in, see the Python code, how it was done, implemented and playing around it. And we always have the view of the files, then a preview with an iFrame that you can see your app while you develop and whatnot. 00:37:29.980 --> 00:37:34.980 Yeah. Mm hmm. Quickly about the geography of, of how the project is organized. 00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:35.980 Sure. 00:37:35.980 --> 00:37:51.980 You have your index.html, which is the thing that is first served to the browser. And if we, if we go look at that, we'll see that in there, it's just referencing basically all the other things. And it's just plain old HTML in there as well. So we've got PyScript being loaded as well. We've got some CSS. 00:37:51.980 --> 00:38:08.980 They've got the script, PyScript tag that tells us that main.py is where the application is going to be run from. And then we just have, you know, the HTML code for displaying the user interface. If we hop over to manifest.json, this is an old one. 00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:10.980 The others that have a PyScript.toml, right? 00:38:10.980 --> 00:38:11.980 Yes. 00:38:11.980 --> 00:38:14.980 I was just going to say, it's usually a PyScript.toml file. 00:38:14.980 --> 00:38:17.980 I can pull that up for us here. 00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:38.980 Yeah. Yeah. That's great. In the HTML file, it's going to be empty because there's nothing there, but this is where you, you start to define characteristics of the environment in which this app is going to run. So you might say packages equals, and then a list of packages that you want installed as if it were a requirements.txt file. Okay. 00:38:38.980 --> 00:38:40.980 Give me a sense of what I can put in that list. 00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:42.980 That looks good. 00:38:42.980 --> 00:38:43.980 I know. 00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:44.980 Anything that is pure Python. 00:38:44.980 --> 00:38:45.980 Okay. 00:38:45.980 --> 00:38:46.980 Almost, almost everything. 00:38:46.980 --> 00:38:47.980 Yeah. 00:38:47.980 --> 00:38:50.980 There are, there are complicated caveats, which we could go into. 00:38:50.980 --> 00:38:51.980 Yes. 00:38:51.980 --> 00:39:01.980 Overall, overall, the differentiator is really if you're using anything that does multiprocessing or threading or sockets, right? Like those on the browser don't really exist. 00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:02.980 Right. 00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:11.980 So I couldn't use PyMongo or Pg, Psycho or requests per se, because those are basically violating some. 00:39:11.980 --> 00:39:12.980 Yes. 00:39:12.980 --> 00:39:13.980 Browser. 00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:14.980 Yeah. 00:39:14.980 --> 00:39:20.980 A request specifically there, there is a pipe package that patches requests. 00:39:20.980 --> 00:39:23.980 So you can actually, it's called for Pyodide. 00:39:23.980 --> 00:39:25.980 It's Pyodide HTTP, I think. 00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:31.980 And it basically just patches everything from after you do that, then you can just import requests and use it normally. 00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:32.980 So it does work right now. 00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:32.980 Yes. 00:39:32.980 --> 00:39:40.980 But so the important thing is, is that you remember that your tab is the conceptually equivalent to your virtual inf. 00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:41.980 Okay. 00:39:41.980 --> 00:39:49.980 And so the PyScript.DOML file is just the way PyScript learns about how do you want to configure your environment for this. 00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:50.980 Okay. 00:39:50.980 --> 00:39:52.980 And then if we look in main.py, there we go. 00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:54.980 It's the classic Python. 00:39:54.980 --> 00:39:55.980 This is where you start. 00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.980 This is where you just type your Python code. 00:39:57.980 --> 00:40:05.980 Just go ahead, you know, import JS and then JS document dot whatever, you know, to get yourself into the DOM, that sort of stuff. 00:40:05.980 --> 00:40:06.980 Yeah. 00:40:06.980 --> 00:40:09.980 And from that, you have a link that you can share with anyone, right? 00:40:09.980 --> 00:40:10.980 Like it just works. 00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:11.980 Yeah. 00:40:11.980 --> 00:40:12.980 That's the power of it. 00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:13.980 Right. 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:13.980 Yeah. 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:14.980 Excellent. 00:40:14.980 --> 00:40:16.980 So yeah, I just got to share or copy it or whatever. 00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:17.980 Yeah. 00:40:17.980 --> 00:40:20.980 So this is a way for people to play with PyScript. 00:40:20.980 --> 00:40:28.980 I saw here in the index that you specifically refer to certain releases of PyScript here. 00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:37.980 So I guess presumably it's kind of however much you want to stay on the cutting edge of PyScript or kind of just take some version in time and stick with it. 00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:37.980 Yeah. 00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:38.480 Yeah. 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:41.980 That's actually a great question because we've been discussing that a lot. 00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:46.980 And hey, just we should actually, should we remove latest and or unstable? 00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:54.980 Those are always linked to the latest stable release and the latest merged commit in the repo. 00:40:54.980 --> 00:41:05.980 And I think ultimately we're leaning towards yes and always spin the version mostly because that guarantees that, you know, we're going to change things under the rug for you and your app just works. 00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:07.980 It's been courteous to the user, isn't it? 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:10.980 I mean, we don't want to do something that breaks their code. 00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:11.980 Okay. 00:41:11.980 --> 00:41:19.980 So if you pin it to, you know, PyScript version 0.0.1 alpha one, you know, from way back when dinosaurs ruled the world, but your code still works. 00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:23.980 It might not be the most up to date PyScript, but it's your code. 00:41:23.980 --> 00:41:24.980 It's your responsibility. 00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:27.980 If you want to update the runtime, you go knock yourself out. 00:41:27.980 --> 00:41:28.980 We need to do something. 00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:29.980 That's a good idea. 00:41:29.980 --> 00:41:36.980 So that brings up a bit of a comment from Toon Army out there who says, so we're just about out of alpha. 00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:39.980 Do not use in production question mark. 00:41:39.980 --> 00:41:40.980 Yeah, that's a good idea. 00:41:40.980 --> 00:41:41.980 What's the status? 00:41:41.980 --> 00:41:44.980 YOLO slash latest. 00:41:44.980 --> 00:41:45.980 Let's go. 00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:46.980 Backwards. 00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:52.980 So even with very stable things, I would always recommend pinning all the versions anyway. 00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:53.980 Right. 00:41:53.980 --> 00:41:54.980 I can. 00:41:54.980 --> 00:42:00.980 And even the secondary versions and whatnot, like when you deploy, pin the thing, pin the thing down. 00:42:00.980 --> 00:42:11.980 And that's what with PyScript.com, we're trying to basically put all those small details baked in so that you don't need to think about those and just use best practices. 00:42:11.980 --> 00:42:18.980 For instance, we are using config and PyConfig and PyScript with source and not having code in line, right? 00:42:18.980 --> 00:42:24.980 Because coding in line is great to get going, but it's really hard to read. 00:42:24.980 --> 00:42:26.980 Editors don't play well with it. 00:42:26.980 --> 00:42:28.980 It's hard to test your code, all of this. 00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:34.980 So we're saying just let's just use templates that are encouraging best practices and pinning the versions is one of them. 00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:35.980 Could I write unit tests? 00:42:35.980 --> 00:42:40.980 Could I have a page that is like test.html and then import pytest? 00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:41.980 I do that. 00:42:41.980 --> 00:42:42.980 And you start running the browser. 00:42:42.980 --> 00:42:43.980 Yeah. 00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:44.980 Yeah. 00:42:44.980 --> 00:42:45.980 So, okay, here's the thing. 00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:49.980 And we've not mentioned PyPicard or InventWat, we've renamed it. 00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:56.980 But when I was writing that before or the kind of proof of concept before PyCon, I had pytest running in the browser. 00:42:56.980 --> 00:42:58.980 I mean, why wouldn't you run it in the browser? 00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:01.980 That's the context literally in which this code is supposed to run. 00:43:01.980 --> 00:43:04.980 So let's run the test suite in the browser. 00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:05.980 And it just works. 00:43:05.980 --> 00:43:06.980 It's lovely. 00:43:06.980 --> 00:43:07.980 Yeah. 00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:11.980 It's a good idea to actually seeing the thing. 00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:14.980 A real kind of woohoo kind of fist pump. 00:43:14.980 --> 00:43:15.980 Yeah, that's fantastic. 00:43:15.980 --> 00:43:17.980 So speaking of you, why don't you? 00:43:17.980 --> 00:43:22.980 Yeah, I just want to mention one aspect, which is we don't always think about this. 00:43:22.980 --> 00:43:29.980 Because PyScript runs in your browser, in your clients, like there's no server side logic or anything like this. 00:43:29.980 --> 00:43:31.980 So scalability comes for free. 00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:37.980 You can scale your Hello World app to a billion users and not notice. 00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:40.980 Because all the computation is going to run on their end. 00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:41.980 Right? 00:43:41.980 --> 00:43:46.980 Which is another really cool aspect of the whole thing that we don't give enough credit to it. 00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:47.980 But it's important. 00:43:47.980 --> 00:43:49.980 Yeah, it absolutely is. 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:52.980 Unless you have some kind of server sync type of thing. 00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:54.980 There's just there's no effort. 00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:54.980 Right? 00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:54.980 Yeah. 00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:56.980 Other than delivering the wasm bits. 00:43:56.980 --> 00:43:56.980 Yeah. 00:43:56.980 --> 00:43:57.980 All right. 00:43:57.980 --> 00:43:59.980 Somewhere buried in here, we have Piper card. 00:43:59.980 --> 00:44:00.980 There we go. 00:44:00.980 --> 00:44:01.980 Okay. 00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:03.980 So you mentioned you were working on this. 00:44:03.980 --> 00:44:05.980 Tell us about this, Nick. 00:44:05.980 --> 00:44:06.980 Okay. 00:44:06.980 --> 00:44:13.980 So Peter, when he announced PyScripts the world at PyCon last year, he said this is going to be for the 99%. 00:44:13.980 --> 00:44:16.980 And for that, he meant that not developers. 00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:17.980 Okay. 00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:20.980 And I'm old enough because I'm dinosaur. 00:44:20.980 --> 00:44:21.980 Really in internet time. 00:44:21.980 --> 00:44:24.980 You were on the internet before the web existed. 00:44:24.980 --> 00:44:34.980 I was actually, I was, I remember getting NCSA mosaic onto a 386 machine in my computing lab at university and got it. 00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:35.980 Oh my gosh. 00:44:35.980 --> 00:44:36.980 This is incredible. 00:44:36.980 --> 00:44:38.980 It was mind blowing. 00:44:38.980 --> 00:44:39.980 That's the first graphical. 00:44:39.980 --> 00:44:41.980 I can connect to NASA. 00:44:41.980 --> 00:44:42.980 That's amazing. 00:44:42.980 --> 00:44:43.980 I just said two minutes. 00:44:43.980 --> 00:44:44.980 I'll be able to download this picture. 00:44:44.980 --> 00:44:45.980 It'll be so remarkable. 00:44:45.980 --> 00:44:46.980 Yeah. 00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:47.980 There was Archie. 00:44:47.980 --> 00:44:48.980 There was gopher. 00:44:48.980 --> 00:44:49.980 There was telling us before the web. 00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:50.980 Okay. 00:44:50.980 --> 00:44:55.980 That's a whole different podcast for old fellows who were on the web back in the day. 00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:56.980 We should stop that now. 00:44:56.980 --> 00:44:57.980 We're turning into the full internet. 00:44:57.980 --> 00:44:58.980 Yeah. 00:44:58.980 --> 00:44:59.980 The internet used to have a sound. 00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:00.980 Nicholas. 00:45:00.980 --> 00:45:01.980 Yeah. 00:45:01.980 --> 00:45:02.980 Yeah. 00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:03.980 Oh, yes. 00:45:03.980 --> 00:45:04.980 Yes. 00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:05.980 Anyway. 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:06.980 Sorry. 00:45:06.980 --> 00:45:07.980 Young people. 00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:09.980 Anyone under the age of 40. 00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:10.980 All right. 00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:11.980 Paper card. 00:45:11.980 --> 00:45:21.980 Back then when dinosaurs ruled the world, there was an incredible framework for writing GUI based 00:45:21.980 --> 00:45:23.980 apps on the early versions of the Mac. 00:45:23.980 --> 00:45:24.980 Okay. 00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:25.980 And it's called hyper card. 00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:29.980 And the concept is very easy to explain. 00:45:29.980 --> 00:45:32.980 The user interface is just made of a stack of cards. 00:45:32.980 --> 00:45:33.980 Okay. 00:45:33.980 --> 00:45:38.980 And there is always one card being displayed at once and you interact with that card. 00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:42.980 So there might be a button or there might be some text or a link or a picture or a movie. 00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:46.980 But when you interact with that, it transitions you to another card. 00:45:46.980 --> 00:45:53.980 So it's a little bit like, you know, again, from a similar vintage that those choose your own adventure games where, you know, if you want to kill troll, turn to page 291. 00:45:53.980 --> 00:45:56.980 If you want to run away, turn to page 32. 00:45:56.980 --> 00:45:58.980 So you transition to a new state. 00:45:58.980 --> 00:46:01.980 That's a new card or a new piece of text in the adventure game as it were. 00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:02.980 And so on and so. 00:46:02.980 --> 00:46:03.980 Okay. 00:46:03.980 --> 00:46:05.980 It's really easy to explain that to 11 year olds. 00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:06.980 Okay. 00:46:06.980 --> 00:46:19.980 And so we took that pipe a card model and we created something that we demoed at PyCon that allows you to essentially build apps on top of PyScript using these concepts. 00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:20.980 Okay. 00:46:20.980 --> 00:46:22.980 I'm not sure whether these will work still. 00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:24.980 The auto advance one works. 00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:27.980 You just have to have patience because it takes 10 seconds to auto advance. 00:46:27.980 --> 00:46:28.980 Yeah. 00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:29.980 Okay. 00:46:29.980 --> 00:46:37.980 So that, so these demos allow me to, you know, exercise different aspects of the underlying browser and how that interacts with Python and things. 00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:43.980 But what we've done is we've renamed it from a Piper card because that has a legacy. 00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:47.980 People think it's going to be hypercard when in fact it's not hypercard. 00:46:47.980 --> 00:46:54.980 It's actually Python in the browser, but we use that card like metaphor, but there are other things that we kind of, we want to build into that. 00:46:54.980 --> 00:47:18.980 So right now, literally this is what I do in my day is I'm thinking very hard and writing first draft of what Invent this framework will be so that it makes it easy for people to create user interface led applications using Python and PyScript in the browser, wherever the browser may be on your Tesla, on your mobile phone, on your tablet, on your desktop. 00:47:18.980 --> 00:47:19.980 It'll all look the same. 00:47:19.980 --> 00:47:38.980 Now I've been working at perhaps the Python end of things, but another aspect of this is that we want to make sure that we create a development environment that will probably end up in PyScript.com that will allow beginner coders in the same way that, you know, my work on Mew tries to give you a code editor. 00:47:38.980 --> 00:47:43.980 That's not as complicated as a Visual Studio Code, but it lets you get to the good stuff as quickly as possible. 00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:56.980 So it is a similar sort of philosophy will allow you to draw your user interface, allow you to create the logic that you need to make your app run without actually even realizing that under the hood, you've got Python running as well. 00:47:56.980 --> 00:48:03.980 So we should see Piper Card as kind of a proof of concept and then you're coming out with this, you called it Invent. 00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:04.980 Invent. 00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:09.980 So you literally import Invent and then import dot app or import dot whatever. 00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:10.980 Yeah. 00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:11.980 Not import. 00:48:11.980 --> 00:48:12.980 Invent. 00:48:12.980 --> 00:48:13.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:48:13.980 --> 00:48:15.980 In the end of the day over here in the UK. 00:48:15.980 --> 00:48:16.980 I'll say one thing to you, Nicholas. 00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:27.980 Actually, I'm a little disappointed, to be honest, that I'm the only one that actually is dogfooding type Invent and writing my talks with Invent and all of those. 00:48:27.980 --> 00:48:28.980 Yeah. 00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:29.980 You should please. 00:48:29.980 --> 00:48:30.980 For Pi. 00:48:30.980 --> 00:48:31.980 Hey, it's great. 00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:36.980 I've been using actually visual Pi script and Invent, et cetera, for my talk. 00:48:36.980 --> 00:48:39.980 And I was expecting you would say like, yeah, me too. 00:48:39.980 --> 00:48:40.980 They're like, oh, really? 00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:42.980 Really brave of you. 00:48:42.980 --> 00:48:45.980 Just left you hanging out. 00:48:45.980 --> 00:48:46.980 Yeah, yeah. 00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:48.980 I have a bank to rights. 00:48:48.980 --> 00:48:49.980 He's got me bank to rights. 00:48:49.980 --> 00:49:10.980 But honestly, one thing that I didn't think before while in the Uber to the conference the day before my, no, actually the day of my talk, the ability to actually check my slides and change them on the backseat of a car on my phone was mind blowing and really cool, which is it helps to the power of the framework itself. 00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:11.980 Yeah. 00:49:11.980 --> 00:49:12.980 Kudos. 00:49:12.980 --> 00:49:20.980 So you've told a good, really good story here, because now imagine that you are in a classroom in, I don't know, I'm just picking random kind of in Mexico. 00:49:20.980 --> 00:49:21.980 Okay. 00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:23.980 And you've got a class where there are kids with Chromebooks. 00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:24.980 Okay. 00:49:24.980 --> 00:49:29.980 Getting Python on there, getting any app to be built on those is difficult enough. 00:49:29.980 --> 00:49:36.980 Like with PyScript, it's going to be so much easier to sort of stories to do that sort of thing. 00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:36.980 Mm-hmm. 00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:39.980 So that's, we're working hard on that. 00:49:39.980 --> 00:49:43.980 And it's going to be a long journey, but we're confident that it'll, it'll produce good results. 00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:50.980 Do you have some dreams or have you thought about Git and GitHub integration into PyScript.com? 00:49:50.980 --> 00:49:58.980 Like if I had a PyScript.com thing and a GitHub repo, could I have one mirror the other so that I could do GitHub like things to it? 00:49:58.980 --> 00:49:59.980 Yeah. 00:49:59.980 --> 00:50:00.980 Go ahead, Nikos. 00:50:00.980 --> 00:50:09.980 I was going to say, I look forward to the feature request on our, you know, we're listening to the community. 00:50:09.980 --> 00:50:11.980 If that's something that you want, tell us about it. 00:50:11.980 --> 00:50:12.980 Yeah. 00:50:12.980 --> 00:50:16.980 Actually, I would love to hear more about how would you, people would envision it. 00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:24.980 So we already kind of already have it in the sense that people working on both PyScript.com, but also the OpenSearch project. 00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:27.980 We, we have a, a CLI for both, right? 00:50:27.980 --> 00:50:34.980 And the CLI on the open source side allows you to create new projects with a template to run them locally and those type of things. 00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:46.980 We have a plugin for that CLI that is a PyScript.com plugin that allows you to log in, log out, and then basically have a local copy version of your project that is on .com. 00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:57.980 And one of the first scenarios that we're thinking was, as a developer, probably not as a, as a non-technical user, but as a developer, I want to use GitHub for my virtual control things. 00:50:57.980 --> 00:51:00.980 And I want to use PyScript.com to deploy and change things. 00:51:00.980 --> 00:51:03.980 So we do have a minimal integration. 00:51:03.980 --> 00:51:09.980 We're going to be announcing and properly announcing and releasing those things in a month timeframe. 00:51:09.980 --> 00:51:09.980 Nice. 00:51:09.980 --> 00:51:13.980 You know, that is one of the most important use cases that we have. 00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:14.980 Yeah. 00:51:14.980 --> 00:51:25.980 Take my thoughts for what they are is, you know, very loosely informed, not a lot of skin in the game, but you know, with my, my website, my personal website, I use Hugo. 00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:29.980 And then I just push to a branch that triggers a deploy on Netlify. 00:51:29.980 --> 00:51:33.980 You know, there's kind of the Heroku type thing, right? 00:51:33.980 --> 00:51:36.980 It'd be cool if it kind of just like, it goes to this branch. 00:51:36.980 --> 00:51:38.980 That's what's on PyScript.com. 00:51:38.980 --> 00:51:42.980 If that's what I would love if I were doing the integration and using it, but yeah. 00:51:42.980 --> 00:51:43.980 Yeah. 00:51:43.980 --> 00:51:45.980 And that's one use case. 00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:49.980 Interesting that you mentioned, we've been looking at Heroku as well, et cetera. 00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:57.980 That kind of difficulty here is we're often used to a one repo, one app type of separation. 00:51:57.980 --> 00:52:04.980 But you may have like a one repo where let's say you collect all your talks over and that you give, you know, around conferences. 00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:08.980 And you may, you may want to have a folder and each folder is one app on PyScript.com. 00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:11.980 And how do we support those, you know, different workflows? 00:52:11.980 --> 00:52:14.980 That's the type of thing I'm thinking right now. 00:52:14.980 --> 00:52:16.980 And that, that is sure. 00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:21.980 Well, people who are using, using it, you know, reach out to these guys and give me your thoughts here. 00:52:21.980 --> 00:52:22.980 Thank you. 00:52:22.980 --> 00:52:23.980 We're getting, of course. 00:52:23.980 --> 00:52:24.980 Yeah. 00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:28.980 Maybe the last thing we should talk about is kind of PyScript next. 00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:30.980 Where are we going from here, folks? 00:52:30.980 --> 00:52:31.980 Yes. 00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:32.980 So let me use this real quick. 00:52:32.980 --> 00:52:35.980 And I think, I think you should have like a link to- 00:52:35.980 --> 00:52:37.980 I have a bunch of tabs open. 00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:38.980 That one. 00:52:38.980 --> 00:52:39.980 Perfect. 00:52:39.980 --> 00:52:40.980 So what's PyScript next? 00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:47.980 It's, as I said, like we're rewriting PyScript with a smaller core, more flexible, web native, et cetera, to allow different things. 00:52:47.980 --> 00:52:51.980 So this tech preview that we are formally launching next week. 00:52:51.980 --> 00:52:53.980 So y'all listening. 00:52:53.980 --> 00:52:56.980 It was awesome. 00:52:56.980 --> 00:52:59.980 I'm sure the release was amazing and it went really well. 00:52:59.980 --> 00:53:00.980 So perfect. 00:53:00.980 --> 00:53:01.980 Congratulations. 00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:04.980 That's very doctor who of you to say that. 00:53:04.980 --> 00:53:05.980 Yeah, it is. 00:53:05.980 --> 00:53:15.980 But the gist of it is that we rethought a lot of the core concepts and now we are allowed, we have, we're able to allow multiple interpreters. 00:53:15.980 --> 00:53:19.980 We have MicroPython by default, supported by defaults. 00:53:19.980 --> 00:53:25.980 All of the interpreters support execution on the main thread, just like the previous version of PyScript. 00:53:25.980 --> 00:53:36.980 But now also you support on a worker, web worker, which means you can run Python while the web is loading or while the page is doing other things. 00:53:36.980 --> 00:53:40.980 It's like there's another process or other processes in your page. 00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:42.980 That's what basically a web worker is. 00:53:42.980 --> 00:53:47.980 All right. That's been a big part of WebAssembly for quite a while, but you all haven't leveraged that previously, right? 00:53:47.980 --> 00:53:48.980 Yes. 00:53:48.980 --> 00:53:49.980 Yeah. 00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:58.980 And it was very painful for us because, you know, for instance, panel and internal projects of Anaconda, like they, they have all the examples ported to the web with Pyodide. 00:53:58.980 --> 00:54:04.980 And because we didn't support the workers yet, it was better for them to just use Pyodide directly. 00:54:04.980 --> 00:54:08.980 Now we can allow them to use PyScript and, you know, do all those things. 00:54:08.980 --> 00:54:15.980 We saw actually a type preview of even Django or FastAPI running on PyScript with workers, right? 00:54:15.980 --> 00:54:17.980 Like, which is extremely cool. 00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:30.980 And you can think of, it's hard to actually imagine, but even just the educational purpose of this, you can have wide running examples in your docs and you can just play with it, which is interesting. 00:54:30.980 --> 00:54:38.980 Well, I don't know how, how well PyScript plugs into this world, but there is an entire ecosystem that I don't operate very much in. 00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:44.980 But where you, if you had a, if you have WebAssembly, you can run it kind of like node can run JavaScript on a server. 00:54:44.980 --> 00:54:50.980 You can run WebAssembly stuff in the cloud on a server in a container, or you can run it directly. 00:54:50.980 --> 00:54:55.980 So in those scenarios, it makes tons of sense to say we're going to use PyScript to host FastAPI. 00:54:55.980 --> 00:54:56.980 And it, it has a meaning, right? 00:54:56.980 --> 00:55:00.980 It, it's not just browsers all the way down or something, right? 00:55:00.980 --> 00:55:02.980 It's, it has a purpose for being there. 00:55:02.980 --> 00:55:03.980 Yeah. 00:55:03.980 --> 00:55:04.980 Yeah. 00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:05.980 And I, well, I wish we had more time. 00:55:05.980 --> 00:55:10.980 I had, there's a lot going on in WebAssembly ecosystem as, as well to support this as well, which is cool. 00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:11.980 Yeah. 00:55:11.980 --> 00:55:19.980 But just in the interest of time, we, this next branch as well, it also supports communication between workers and the main thread and vice versa. 00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:22.980 So, and we can have multiple interpreters. 00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:26.980 Maybe one is Pyodide, another is Python, another is Lua. 00:55:26.980 --> 00:55:31.980 And we have examples of those that then they can communicate between each other, right? 00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:33.980 Like if you click on all together. 00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:34.980 Okay. 00:55:34.980 --> 00:55:38.980 So you've got JavaScript starting MicroPython in a WebWorker. 00:55:38.980 --> 00:55:39.980 Okay. 00:55:39.980 --> 00:55:42.980 And then MicroPython saying hello back to JavaScript. 00:55:42.980 --> 00:55:49.980 But at the same time, MicroPython on the main thread has actually started in a WebWorker, a Lua interpreter. 00:55:49.980 --> 00:55:54.980 And Lua is saying back to the main thread to MicroPython, hi MicroPython. 00:55:54.980 --> 00:55:59.980 And then you've got MicroPython starting CPython on a WebWorker. 00:55:59.980 --> 00:56:05.980 And then when CPython has loaded and everything back to the MicroPython context, you know, hello MicroPython. 00:56:05.980 --> 00:56:07.980 This, you know, can you imagine? 00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:19.980 Well, I can actually, because I used to do some work for the UK government and I was on a data platform and the civil servants who were doing all the stats work in the Ministry of Justice were using our platform. 00:56:19.980 --> 00:56:25.980 And they would like, they would want data where they would, they wanted to grab data, then run, run it through some R thing. 00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:27.980 And then run it through some Python thing. 00:56:27.980 --> 00:56:30.980 And then stick it on a browser, you know, on a website somewhere. 00:56:30.980 --> 00:56:36.980 So some minister or a highfalutin civil servant can go and have a look at the graph of, I don't know, COVID. 00:56:36.980 --> 00:56:40.980 The spread of COVID through the UK prison system or something like that. 00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:42.980 Well, you can do that all in a single browser. 00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:47.980 The amount of stand on one leg, stick your finger in your ear and whistle, God save the king backwards. 00:56:47.980 --> 00:56:53.980 You needed to get that to work was, you know, it took them weeks to just get their development environment set up. 00:56:53.980 --> 00:56:58.980 With Web Workers, we've, and the multiple runtimes, we've kind of got that as a solution in now as well. 00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:02.980 Actually, the speed of loading speed. 00:57:02.980 --> 00:57:05.980 Like you didn't, we didn't have a loading stream. 00:57:05.980 --> 00:57:09.980 We didn't have like, actually, if you check the network. 00:57:09.980 --> 00:57:11.980 Let me try the map plot live. 00:57:11.980 --> 00:57:12.980 Yeah. 00:57:12.980 --> 00:57:15.980 Or just try my microphone and see how fast that brings you up. 00:57:15.980 --> 00:57:16.980 This one. 00:57:16.980 --> 00:57:17.980 Yeah, there we go. 00:57:17.980 --> 00:57:18.980 I mean, it's like instant. 00:57:18.980 --> 00:57:19.980 Yeah, it is instant. 00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:20.980 It's amazing. 00:57:20.980 --> 00:57:21.980 Yeah. 00:57:21.980 --> 00:57:23.980 And once it's cached, it's, you know. 00:57:23.980 --> 00:57:30.980 Yeah, it's this kind of stuff that I'm thinking like, then the front end framework type of story starts to become completely realistic. 00:57:30.980 --> 00:57:31.980 Yeah. 00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:38.980 Actually, the last one that I wanted to show actually is the next tab that you have a thing, which is, there you go. 00:57:38.980 --> 00:57:40.980 Can you open the console as well? 00:57:40.980 --> 00:57:41.980 Thank you. 00:57:41.980 --> 00:57:42.980 Should use my little hockey thing here. 00:57:42.980 --> 00:57:45.980 My little, is it like a hockey you can do to open those? 00:57:45.980 --> 00:57:46.980 Anyway. 00:57:46.980 --> 00:57:47.980 Yeah. Okay. 00:57:47.980 --> 00:57:49.980 If you go to console, actually, just to show the results. 00:57:49.980 --> 00:57:50.980 Yeah. 00:57:50.980 --> 00:57:51.980 Perfect. 00:57:51.980 --> 00:57:59.980 So this example is actually having, it's a Python input keyword stopping its execution, waiting for an answer. 00:57:59.980 --> 00:58:00.980 Oh. 00:58:00.980 --> 00:58:01.980 So it's actually blocking calls. 00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:02.980 You're good at math. 00:58:02.980 --> 00:58:03.980 Seven. 00:58:03.980 --> 00:58:04.980 Right. 00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:05.980 No, no, no, no, no. 00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:06.980 That's the JavaScript console. 00:58:06.980 --> 00:58:08.980 You want to type seven into the input. 00:58:08.980 --> 00:58:09.980 The input. 00:58:09.980 --> 00:58:10.980 Okay. 00:58:10.980 --> 00:58:18.980 So basically what's happening is it's blocking and then waiting for its goal while the page is still responsive and everything else. 00:58:18.980 --> 00:58:20.980 And then when you answer, it executes. 00:58:20.980 --> 00:58:21.980 Mm-hmm. 00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:22.980 Okay. 00:58:22.980 --> 00:58:24.980 Because that unlocks a lot of use cases. 00:58:24.980 --> 00:58:30.980 But debugger, for instance, like we can have breakpoints somewhere and you can go and debug your code. 00:58:30.980 --> 00:58:35.980 And a lot of scenarios that were not working before can work now. 00:58:35.980 --> 00:58:36.980 So this is very exciting. 00:58:36.980 --> 00:58:37.980 You know. 00:58:37.980 --> 00:58:38.980 Yeah. 00:58:38.980 --> 00:58:42.980 There's a lot of kind of under the hood stuff that has changed that enables us to do some really cool things. 00:58:42.980 --> 00:58:43.980 Yeah. 00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:44.980 Excellent. 00:58:44.980 --> 00:58:47.980 So with the web workers, do I get async and await? 00:58:47.980 --> 00:58:48.980 Yes. 00:58:48.980 --> 00:58:49.980 And proper async and await. 00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:50.980 Yes. 00:58:50.980 --> 00:58:51.980 That's fantastic. 00:58:51.980 --> 00:58:52.980 Okay. 00:58:52.980 --> 00:58:53.980 All right, guys. 00:58:53.980 --> 00:58:54.980 What else? 00:58:54.980 --> 00:58:59.980 What final things do you want to tell people before we wrap up this PyScript update episode? 00:58:59.980 --> 00:59:01.980 I've got two things. 00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:08.980 First one is if you want to play, if you want to have a look around, PyScript.com is the place to just get your hands dirty. 00:59:08.980 --> 00:59:12.980 And our colleagues who work on that have done an amazing job. 00:59:12.980 --> 00:59:17.980 And the feedback that you can give them through the form that you'll find on the website is read. 00:59:17.980 --> 00:59:22.980 And we care very deeply about, you know, the experience that users have and suggestions and things. 00:59:22.980 --> 00:59:23.980 So knock yourself out. 00:59:23.980 --> 00:59:24.980 Go and go and do that. 00:59:24.980 --> 00:59:28.980 And the second thing I want to say is that PyScript is open source software. 00:59:28.980 --> 00:59:35.980 So I know Fabio and myself are employed by Anaconda, but we have contributors who are not Anaconda employees. 00:59:35.980 --> 00:59:39.980 And, you know, we would love the community to come with us on this journey. 00:59:39.980 --> 00:59:40.980 Tell us what you want. 00:59:40.980 --> 00:59:47.980 Build a framework on top of PyScript, build plugins on top of PyScript, create a goofy app on top of PyScript, you know, put it on your Tesla or whatever. 00:59:47.980 --> 00:59:48.980 You know, I don't know. 00:59:48.980 --> 00:59:58.980 I would love, it would make my day if before the end of the year, somebody's gone, Hey, I've built a death star using PyScript or some ridiculous project or whatever. 00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:00.980 And, you know, I go, wow. 01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:02.980 Like I said, I never thought someone would do that. 01:00:02.980 --> 01:00:05.980 That's be playful, explore, be creative, have fun. 01:00:05.980 --> 01:00:07.980 That's what I want to see. 01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:08.980 That's what I want to see. 01:00:08.980 --> 01:00:09.980 I don't know, Fabio, how about you? 01:00:09.980 --> 01:00:10.980 Yeah. 01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:16.980 I would actually just double down what you said and actually encourage everyone to reach out. 01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:23.980 We were trying to make it a good tool for anyone to learn programming or to share your things, et cetera. 01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:36.980 And a lot of the difficulties we have all the time is trying to think with new users' brain or, you know, a student's brain and people with different backgrounds. 01:00:36.980 --> 01:00:40.980 Because unfortunately or fortunately, we've been in this game for 20 years. 01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:40.980 Right. 01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:41.980 So it's really hard. 01:00:41.980 --> 01:00:44.980 So what we say, reach out, we need you. 01:00:44.980 --> 01:00:45.980 We really mean it. 01:00:45.980 --> 01:00:55.980 Like, yeah, we, I think I strongly believe that all open source projects are about people and benefit from the diversity. 01:00:55.980 --> 01:00:55.980 Right. 01:00:55.980 --> 01:00:58.980 Like, good docs are made by non-developers. 01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:08.980 Good, you know, good content is made by, you know, people that have passion for hopping on a video and talking about the stuff. 01:01:08.980 --> 01:01:13.980 And I'm trying to convince my daughter to have like a PyScript channel on TikTok, you know, just to talk. 01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:14.980 Oh, that'd be cool. 01:01:14.980 --> 01:01:14.980 Yeah. 01:01:14.980 --> 01:01:15.980 Right. 01:01:15.980 --> 01:01:16.980 To talk the lingo. 01:01:16.980 --> 01:01:23.980 So we really value you reaching out and coming and helping us be more, you know, human as a project. 01:01:23.980 --> 01:01:32.980 And the second thing is really help us spread the word and make it popular so that we can make Python even more popular and help people. 01:01:32.980 --> 01:01:48.980 So, which I think in this age where we have AI and big tech companies and algorithms and all of that giving power to people to just run programming language on their machines and the distributed nature of PyScript, I think it's important today. 01:01:48.980 --> 01:01:50.980 So, yeah, that's all I have. 01:01:50.980 --> 01:01:51.980 I wanted to say. 01:01:51.980 --> 01:01:52.980 Yeah. Excellent. 01:01:52.980 --> 01:01:53.980 Maybe a quick final question. 01:01:53.980 --> 01:01:56.980 Marwan says, any work on the HTML canvas via PyScript? 01:01:56.980 --> 01:01:59.980 Thinking of simple stuff like creating a snake game. 01:01:59.980 --> 01:02:00.980 Okay. 01:02:00.980 --> 01:02:02.980 So, everyone import JS. 01:02:02.980 --> 01:02:03.980 Now you have global this. 01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:04.980 Okay. 01:02:04.980 --> 01:02:06.980 Now you have access to your canvas. 01:02:06.980 --> 01:02:14.980 And it's the same API because we're proxying the JavaScript objects as you'll find on like the Mozilla, you know, developer docs. 01:02:14.980 --> 01:02:15.980 So go knock yourself out. 01:02:15.980 --> 01:02:16.980 Awesome. 01:02:16.980 --> 01:02:17.980 Yeah. 01:02:17.980 --> 01:02:18.980 That's what I imagine. 01:02:18.980 --> 01:02:21.980 MDN network, W3 schools, if you can choose. 01:02:21.980 --> 01:02:22.980 Yes. 01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:23.980 Yes. 01:02:23.980 --> 01:02:29.980 I'm also working on a higher level of web API for PyScript, which will help with that as well. 01:02:29.980 --> 01:02:32.980 Make it the API more Pythonic. 01:02:32.980 --> 01:02:34.980 But what they call that is available today. 01:02:34.980 --> 01:02:35.980 And you can just, you know. 01:02:35.980 --> 01:02:36.980 Yeah. 01:02:36.980 --> 01:02:38.980 And you get to reuse your JavaScript skills if you have. 01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:39.980 Yeah. 01:02:39.980 --> 01:02:40.980 It's the same API. 01:02:40.980 --> 01:02:41.980 It's the same API. 01:02:41.980 --> 01:02:42.980 Yeah. 01:02:42.980 --> 01:02:43.980 All right, guys. 01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:44.980 Thank you for being here. 01:02:44.980 --> 01:02:45.980 Thank you for this project. 01:02:45.980 --> 01:02:46.980 It's really, really exciting. 01:02:46.980 --> 01:02:53.980 And I look forward to catching up again and seeing what else you've built in six months, three years, whenever it turns out to be. 01:02:53.980 --> 01:02:54.980 Yes. 01:02:54.980 --> 01:02:57.980 And thank you, Michael, for this and running the show. 01:02:57.980 --> 01:02:58.980 This is always a great fun. 01:02:58.980 --> 01:02:59.980 Thank you. 01:02:59.980 --> 01:03:00.980 Thank you. 01:03:00.980 --> 01:03:01.980 Yeah, you bet. 01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:02.980 Bye. 01:03:02.980 --> 01:03:03.980 Bye. 01:03:03.980 --> 01:03:06.340 This has been another episode of Talk Python To Me. 01:03:06.340 --> 01:03:08.160 Thank you to our sponsors. 01:03:08.160 --> 01:03:09.760 Be sure to check out what they're offering. 01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:11.180 It really helps support the show. 01:03:11.180 --> 01:03:16.020 The folks over at JetBrains encourage you to get work done with PyCharm. 01:03:16.020 --> 01:03:21.580 PyCharm Professional understands complex projects across multiple languages and technologies, 01:03:21.580 --> 01:03:27.240 so you can stay productive while you're writing Python code and other code like HTML or SQL. 01:03:27.240 --> 01:03:32.380 Download your free trial at talkpython.fm/donewithpycharm. 01:03:32.900 --> 01:03:34.780 Take some stress out of your life. 01:03:34.780 --> 01:03:40.260 Get notified immediately about errors and performance issues in your web or mobile applications with 01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:40.560 Sentry. 01:03:40.560 --> 01:03:45.560 Just visit talkpython.fm/sentry and get started for free. 01:03:45.560 --> 01:03:49.160 And be sure to use the promo code talkpython, all one word. 01:03:49.160 --> 01:03:50.860 Want to level up your Python? 01:03:50.860 --> 01:03:54.900 We have one of the largest catalogs of Python video courses over at Talk Python. 01:03:54.900 --> 01:04:00.080 Our content ranges from true beginners to deeply advanced topics like memory and async. 01:04:00.080 --> 01:04:02.740 And best of all, there's not a subscription in sight. 01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:05.660 Check it out for yourself at training.talkpython.fm. 01:04:05.660 --> 01:04:10.340 Be sure to subscribe to the show, open your favorite podcast app, and search for Python. 01:04:10.340 --> 01:04:11.640 We should be right at the top. 01:04:11.640 --> 01:04:16.800 You can also find the iTunes feed at /itunes, the Google Play feed at /play, 01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:21.020 and the direct RSS feed at /rss on talkpython.fm. 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:24.460 We're live streaming most of our recordings these days. 01:04:24.460 --> 01:04:27.860 If you want to be part of the show and have your comments featured on the air, 01:04:27.860 --> 01:04:32.280 be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at talkpython.fm/youtube. 01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.120 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. 01:04:34.120 --> 01:04:35.420 Thanks so much for listening. 01:04:35.420 --> 01:04:36.580 I really appreciate it. 01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:38.500 Now get out there and write some Python code. 01:04:38.500 --> 01:04:59.340 I'll see you next time.