WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.800 Online education has certainly gone mainstream. Developers and companies have finally gotten 00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:09.920 comfortable taking online courses. Sometimes these are recorded, self-paced courses like 00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:15.040 the ones we have at Talk Python Training. Other times, they're more like live events in webcast 00:00:15.040 --> 00:00:20.180 format. In this episode, you'll meet two guys who are taking the interactivity of online learning 00:00:20.180 --> 00:00:25.640 up a notch. Brian Clark and Cecil Phillip run a weekly event on Twitch where they are live 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:30.240 streaming and interactive Python course. They take questions from hundreds of students and dig into 00:00:30.240 --> 00:00:36.140 the diversions that mainstream online learning simply cannot. This is Talk Python To Me, episode 00:00:36.140 --> 00:00:42.400 242, recorded on location at Microsoft Ignite in Orlando, Florida, November 7th, 2019. 00:00:42.400 --> 00:01:01.160 Welcome to Talk Python To Me, a weekly podcast on Python, the language, the libraries, the ecosystem, 00:01:01.160 --> 00:01:06.240 and the personalities. This is your host, Michael Kennedy. Follow me on Twitter where I'm @mkennedy. 00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:11.600 Keep up with the show and listen to past episodes at talkpython.fm and follow the show on Twitter via 00:01:11.600 --> 00:01:12.480 at Talk Python. 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:14.800 Brian, Cecil, welcome to Talk Python To Me. 00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:16.540 Hey, how's it going? Thanks for having us. 00:01:16.540 --> 00:01:21.160 Yeah, it's good to have you here. I'm super excited to talk about this Twitch stuff. To me, 00:01:21.160 --> 00:01:27.820 Twitch and Mixer and all these cool live stream gaming things, they're amazing and it's just such 00:01:27.820 --> 00:01:33.920 a different world that I'm used to, but it hasn't been on my radar as a programming thing until, 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:38.280 Cecil, you said, hey, you know what we're doing together? And I'm like, no way, that is really cool. 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.700 So we're going to talk about your live stream, your live streaming of Python education and 00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:43.220 developer education in general. 00:01:43.220 --> 00:01:43.580 Yeah. 00:01:43.580 --> 00:01:47.280 But before we get there, let's just talk a little bit about you and get people a background on you. 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:50.160 You haven't been on the show yet, Brian. So how'd you get into programming Python real quickly? 00:01:50.160 --> 00:01:54.340 Well, programming Python in particular, I'm normally programming in JavaScript. 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:59.460 Prior to that, it was C-sharp and .NET. And I just like challenging myself to learn new languages. 00:01:59.460 --> 00:02:04.740 Also, Cecil and I are on the cloud advocacy team. And in particular, our audience is around academic. 00:02:04.740 --> 00:02:08.080 And you've got to learn a bunch of languages for that. They're like, we work with Scala. You're 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:11.360 like, what is Scala? I got to go figure this out apparently, right? Yeah. Okay. 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:16.720 Exactly. And the part of what we were wanting to do is at least what I started out with, 00:02:16.720 --> 00:02:20.280 and I've since learned that Cecil had a little bit of background in Python prior to starting the show, 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:25.580 but we really wanted to take a beginner-centric approach to it. Like straight up, what's a variable? 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:27.940 What's constant? What's that kind of stuff? 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:31.480 I think that's so interesting because yeah, we'll get more into this, but you really do have that 00:02:31.480 --> 00:02:36.760 beginner focus. So you don't have to be like on your fifth year of doing this language to make it 00:02:36.760 --> 00:02:40.880 worthwhile, right? Exactly. Yeah. That kind of sparked the idea to, all right, I've been interested 00:02:40.880 --> 00:02:45.200 in Python. There's a lot of machine learning and AI that's around it that I want to get into more. 00:02:45.200 --> 00:02:48.880 Let me learn Python and start with that. And so that's how that kind of came to be. 00:02:48.880 --> 00:02:49.900 Yeah. Super cool. Yeah. 00:02:49.980 --> 00:02:53.580 And Cecil, maybe tell people just quickly about yourself. You've been on the show before 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:58.680 doing all sorts of cool stuff. You were on the evangelist, the dev evangelist advocacy story, 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:02.340 the panel. That was really fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were on before and we talked a little bit about 00:03:02.340 --> 00:03:07.820 developer evangelism and advocacy and what that is. I'm kind of like what Brian said, right? I'm on the 00:03:07.820 --> 00:03:12.920 CA team or the cloud advocate team. And essentially, you know, the team that me and Brian are on, 00:03:12.920 --> 00:03:17.360 we talk a lot with students, with faculty members. I really just try to understand like what are some of 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.320 their needs from an educational perspective when it comes to Microsoft products, when it comes to 00:03:21.320 --> 00:03:26.280 cloud technology or Visual Studio Code or, you know, machine learning and IoT and like some of these, 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:28.100 you know, really interesting topics. Yeah. 00:03:28.100 --> 00:03:32.080 What does that mean for a student and what does that mean for you trying to establish like your 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:37.540 career path going forward? Yeah. And traditionally that's meant, okay, we're using Windows, maybe Windows 00:03:37.540 --> 00:03:43.940 server. We're using C# or possibly C++ if you want to kind of spread out. It didn't used to mean 00:03:43.940 --> 00:03:47.220 Linux and Python, did it? Right? It's a different world. 00:03:47.220 --> 00:03:50.420 Where are you living now? It's a totally different world. And, but I think too, 00:03:50.420 --> 00:03:55.040 what I'm realizing is the more schools that you talk to, all of them have like a different origin 00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:59.360 story, right? Like all of them have a very different background. The college that I went to, I went to 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:03.920 Florida Tech in Melbourne, Florida, which is not too far from where we are today. Yeah. And it was, 00:04:03.920 --> 00:04:07.560 everybody had a Windows machine, right? That was, that was normal. And this was a while ago, 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:11.720 right? This is when people still had like compact Presarios for like their laptops. 00:04:11.940 --> 00:04:14.300 Did you connect to the internet silently or with noise? 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:19.960 At home, when I went to my house, when I went home, we definitely had like a 56k modem that, 00:04:19.960 --> 00:04:24.280 you know, did the ringing thing. I remember being able to distinguish the noise. You would hear, 00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:29.720 you're like, oh, I got 38, whatever, or I got 56k. You could tell the connection noise. You're like, 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:31.620 oh, that's a good one. We're going to do some downloading today. 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:35.840 That's funny. That's funny. But yeah, just depending on the types of schools that you go to, 00:04:35.840 --> 00:04:39.940 like where they are and what their focus is, you'll see a lot of different types of technologies and 00:04:39.940 --> 00:04:43.960 things of that nature. Some of them are very Linux friendly, you know what I mean? Some of 00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:48.380 them are very Windows friendly. Surprisingly, over the schools that I've personally visited, 00:04:48.380 --> 00:04:51.140 I haven't seen a lot of Macintosh machines, which is interesting. 00:04:51.140 --> 00:04:54.740 It is interesting. You know, Macintosh are kind of obscenely expensive. 00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:55.500 And that is true. 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:55.740 Right. 00:04:55.740 --> 00:04:57.080 And that's what I figured it was, right? 00:04:57.080 --> 00:05:00.460 Yeah. And as a student, right? I think of my daughters who are both in college now, 00:05:00.460 --> 00:05:05.200 they're paying their own rent. We cover their tuition, but they got to pay their rent. And things like, 00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:09.580 do I need a new phone this year, even though it's broken? It's like, I don't know if I can afford that 00:05:09.580 --> 00:05:10.560 600 bucks. 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:10.940 Yeah. 00:05:10.940 --> 00:05:14.940 And right. And like this MacBook, I love it, but it was over three grand. It's ridiculous. 00:05:14.940 --> 00:05:18.620 Yeah. Yeah. But in the developer world, like this is the environment that we're used to. 00:05:18.620 --> 00:05:23.460 Yes. Yeah. Because we have well-paying jobs, generally speaking. So it's not that big of a deal, 00:05:23.460 --> 00:05:23.680 right? 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:27.300 Sure. Sure. I mean, whether it's the case that we have the financial means to do it ourselves, 00:05:27.300 --> 00:05:30.280 or we have company sponsored machines or something like that. 00:05:30.280 --> 00:05:33.120 Yeah. Your companies will just say, here's your machine. Yeah, for sure. 00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:36.040 But it just shows you that there's a different perspective now that when you go to schools, 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.300 like the resources that we have is not the same. 00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:41.260 So you're seeing more Windows machines there maybe, huh? 00:05:41.260 --> 00:05:42.620 Definitely more Windows machines. 00:05:42.620 --> 00:05:43.280 How about Linux? 00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:45.740 Through Chromebooks, randomly, every now and again. 00:05:45.740 --> 00:05:46.100 Okay. 00:05:46.100 --> 00:05:51.660 A few folks using Ubuntu and maybe Gen2 or something like that from a Linux perspective. 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:55.700 Cool. Well, before we get into the topics, I don't know if the final show will have the 00:05:55.700 --> 00:05:59.460 background noise. It may. Certainly there's a lot of background noise for us right here, 00:05:59.460 --> 00:06:05.920 because we're recording on location at Microsoft Ignite. Yeah. And it's such a crazy conference. 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:12.420 I thought of Microsoft Build as one of the really large conferences, PyCon. We get like 3,500 people 00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:17.280 attend there. This is like 10x PyCon, right? I had no idea how big it was. 00:06:17.280 --> 00:06:20.800 Somewhere around 30,000 attendees, something like that. 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:24.520 It's something, man. So there's a lot of stuff going on. And it's a little interesting to be here 00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:28.820 as a Python person, because there is some interesting Python stuff. I just watched Steve Dower's 00:06:28.820 --> 00:06:30.300 presentation about Python security. 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:31.060 Nice. Okay. 00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:36.520 Yeah. That was really cool. But there's also a lot of stuff that is kind of foreign to me. There's 00:06:36.520 --> 00:06:41.140 some interesting companies. But maybe tell us a little bit about some of the announcements. We have 00:06:41.140 --> 00:06:48.240 Azure On-Prem is pretty interesting. And we have VS Code Online. So there's a few relevant things maybe 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:49.480 to point out from what's happened this week. 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:54.280 That's the one that's the VS Code Online one is the one I'm most excited about and was really pumped 00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:59.560 to try out and just start tinkering with. In fact, to the point where I used it as a backup for my 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:03.300 talk, where I was demonstrating an extension in Visual Studio Code. 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:03.760 Oh, really? 00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:08.220 It's in preview, the extension. And sometimes I'm still learning Python and setting up my 00:07:08.220 --> 00:07:12.960 environment properly. I think I have something misconfigured on my laptop. And so if I had it as 00:07:12.960 --> 00:07:17.800 a backup, because that environment, I could spin it up. It's using Linux behind the scenes. And I was 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.820 able to get the extension working with all the Python dependencies that I needed. And it went smoothly, 00:07:21.820 --> 00:07:22.320 thankfully. 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:25.880 Yeah. I think this is going to be really empowering for developers, right? It's like, 00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:29.580 you go here, you click the button, like Cecil was telling us yesterday, like you can have a thing 00:07:29.580 --> 00:07:32.480 on your GitHub repository, like launch this in VS Code Online, basically. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.560 The other aspect of it that's going to be super interesting to see people use it for it, 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:42.440 speaking of academic and just teaching and learning and that kind of stuff, is in workshops or in 00:07:42.440 --> 00:07:47.040 classrooms, being able to set up a predetermined environment that already automatically loads up 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:51.160 the code that you might need or the demo application right from GitHub. 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:51.640 Yeah. 00:07:51.640 --> 00:07:57.520 So that your students or just attendees there have their environment already set to go. You're not 00:07:57.520 --> 00:08:01.000 wasting time in the beginning, making sure everybody's on the same page. You're also dealing 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:04.940 with a lot of people that'll get like work issued devices like you both were just talking about, 00:08:04.940 --> 00:08:06.980 and they have limited rights to install stuff. 00:08:06.980 --> 00:08:10.560 Right. I don't have permissions or I have a Chromebook and it won't run it or whatever, 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:10.820 right? 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:15.440 Exactly. So doing it all from the browser like that makes it super interesting to open up the 00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:16.000 doors that way. 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.900 Yeah. Cecil, do you see this as something you could tie into your live stream? 00:08:19.900 --> 00:08:23.580 Definitely. I think maybe at some point in time, and I mean, Brian and I haven't spoken about it yet, 00:08:23.580 --> 00:08:28.300 but maybe we could find a way to kind of integrate it into the stream, maybe do a quick demo of it, 00:08:28.300 --> 00:08:32.300 you know, really just to show folks what's possible. Because kind of like what you were saying before, 00:08:32.300 --> 00:08:38.140 I think the benefit there is just to be able to get going quickly. Like there's pretty much 00:08:38.140 --> 00:08:42.580 little to no setup, right? Like I don't have to worry about installing operating system updates and 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:46.320 having the right dependencies and those types of things happen. I'm assuming there might be a way 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:50.780 to like set up a blueprint or a template so that now we have multiple people that are trying to create 00:08:50.780 --> 00:08:55.360 the same environment from the same repo. And so now we all just have like the same environment 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.060 set up, essentially our own instance of the same environment. 00:08:58.060 --> 00:09:02.240 Yeah. It seems like a great way to help people who are just getting going, right? Like they're, 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:06.220 coming to this stream to learn what the heck Python is and how it works, right? So it's perfect. Like 00:09:06.220 --> 00:09:07.260 click this button and we'll get you rolling. 00:09:07.260 --> 00:09:12.140 Yeah, definitely. I think two, was it two days ago? Two days from the day I was recording anyway. 00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:16.780 So again, like Brian and I have the stream and usually what we do is we take some of the code 00:09:16.780 --> 00:09:21.660 that we write on stream and we'll push it into a GitHub repo. And so after I saw the announcement, 00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:26.920 I was like, oh, well, let me go and see if I could get our code from the repo running in VS Online. 00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:27.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:31.560 And it was super simple. There was literally like two or three buttons I had to press, right? Like, 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:36.760 you know, create environment. I had to put in what repo I wanted it to come from. And that 00:09:36.760 --> 00:09:41.100 was it, right? And then now like I have a machine set up, there's Visual Studio Code running inside 00:09:41.100 --> 00:09:45.340 of the browser. It already had Python on it installed, so I didn't have to install it, which was super 00:09:45.340 --> 00:09:45.580 cool. 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:47.760 Yeah, 3.8, right? Like shiny new Python. 00:09:47.760 --> 00:09:53.700 Yeah, it's Python 3.8, which as of today, I think is maybe like three weeks old, maybe not 00:09:53.700 --> 00:09:57.400 even a month old yet. So that was really cool to see that, you know, how easy that was to set 00:09:57.400 --> 00:09:57.480 up. 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:01.340 Awesome. Yeah, I think that's a cool announcement coming out of here and I'm sure a lot of people can make 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:05.820 use of it, especially in education where setup is challenging, right? Like Jupyter Notebooks are 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:09.640 nice and I do like them, but I would prefer to learn with something that has auto-complete that's a 00:10:09.640 --> 00:10:13.940 little bit better. And I just like the tooling of like a more of a dev editor more than I do like 00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:18.120 Jupyter, even though JupyterLab is pretty killer. All right, so let's talk about Twitch. And Brian, 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.340 I guess that started with you, right? You've been doing Twitch for a while. 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:25.240 I'm so happy to be able to talk about it because I'm super passionate about just live streaming in 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:25.580 general. 00:10:25.580 --> 00:10:31.060 That's awesome. So tell everyone what Twitch is out there. I know a lot of folks know, but a lot of people are like, 00:10:31.060 --> 00:10:35.620 you know, Twitch is like a thing that a person does, not necessarily a platform. 00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:39.840 It's traditionally thought of as like everybody goes there to watch other people play video games. 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:44.520 Right. And these are like sort of the famous YouTube influencer types of the gamer world. 00:10:44.520 --> 00:10:49.320 They'll go there and they'll play, I don't know, Warcraft or Fortnite or something for 12 hours 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:51.740 straight. And people are such fans, they'll just watch that, right? 00:10:51.740 --> 00:10:56.020 Yeah. People in our industry might think, well, you're just going there to goof off. But the surprise 00:10:56.020 --> 00:11:01.200 is there's a lot of other types of content that's available on the platform that people are streaming 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.200 about between not just programming, but there's people that are building stuff hardware wise. 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.340 There's people that are doing arts and crafts, creative related type of things, drawing, painting. 00:11:09.340 --> 00:11:13.240 I mean, there's all kinds of stuff on the platform that you can watch and be entertained by and learn. 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.560 That's super cool. I think it's similar to YouTube in that sense. Like YouTube sounds like 00:11:16.560 --> 00:11:21.520 to a lot of people, oh, they were on YouTube all day. They did nothing, right? It could have been, 00:11:21.520 --> 00:11:26.020 you were watching like an awesome, like build this app, like the one you need to build in Django on 00:11:26.020 --> 00:11:28.100 YouTube, right? That could be like super productive YouTube. 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:33.080 Yeah. And I think the key difference though, there with this and what draws me to live streaming 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:38.400 is that the way, the ability as a viewer to engage with the person that might be teaching something 00:11:38.400 --> 00:11:39.340 or doing something like that. 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:42.700 I put a bunch of stuff on YouTube and then I might get comments about it. 00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:43.020 Right. 00:11:43.020 --> 00:11:45.660 Some of them are super negative, some are unrelated, some are positive, 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.980 but like it's like, that's the YouTube world, but like it's not real time. Like I create it 00:11:49.980 --> 00:11:53.220 and then I publish it and I go to bed and then I get a notification. 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:53.560 Yep. 00:11:53.560 --> 00:11:57.320 It seems to me watching YouTube on your channel that it's very interactive. 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:01.900 Absolutely. Yeah. So with YouTube and that stuff, it's all scripted out. And most of the time, 00:12:01.900 --> 00:12:05.040 I mean, there are, I'm not to say there aren't people that don't do this, but you're going to 00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:08.660 see just the happy path, right? How do you get from A to B building this whole app out? 00:12:08.660 --> 00:12:12.580 Right. Right. The mistake I made, I edited that out because it would look stupid. 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:15.320 Exactly. You don't want to look like you don't know what you're talking about. 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:20.240 And that's what kind of is intimidating as a streamer though. And to get into it is you're 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:25.380 doing it live in front of potentially several people and you're going to be making mistakes, 00:12:25.380 --> 00:12:30.180 but that's the benefit of going there and being there in the moment. You get to see like what it 00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:33.460 is real life. You're not getting the pretty picture all the time right up front. 00:12:33.460 --> 00:12:38.200 That's super positive. I mean, I do think this is a really valuable skill that people can develop 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:43.380 because when you're doing like recorded stuff, yeah, you learn a lot in that. That's great. 00:12:43.380 --> 00:12:47.640 But when you're doing the live presentation, you have to think about what you're saying. You got to 00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:52.580 engage with the people. You got to type and talk. It's much like in-person training, but just 00:12:52.580 --> 00:12:58.700 separated physically, right? Like I think it really gives you a skill of just like presenting in general 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:03.660 around code that people are like, how did you just go up there and you typed and you talked and you 00:13:03.660 --> 00:13:07.740 were looking at that other person. It's well, it's because I've done like hundreds of hours, 00:13:07.740 --> 00:13:10.880 right? Like I did an in-person world. You guys do it on online, right? 00:13:10.880 --> 00:13:14.520 Yeah. It's definitely something where when I first started out, like I still have the recordings of my 00:13:14.520 --> 00:13:16.160 very first streams. Are they hard to watch? 00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:19.840 Well, it's even the most recent one is hard to watch. I can't stand here myself. I'm not going to 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:24.000 be able to listen to this podcast either. You know, like it's just the way it is. It's very rough. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.740 You could tell that I'm not used to being able to multitask like that. And now I feel like it just, 00:13:28.740 --> 00:13:32.640 you know, it comes as second nature, but you seem super smooth. Like both of you guys do. 00:13:32.640 --> 00:13:35.880 Zesel, what do you think about this idea of like using live streaming as a way to like 00:13:35.880 --> 00:13:38.280 almost become better at presenting in general? 00:13:38.280 --> 00:13:43.860 I think it's definitely a great opportunity for particularly folks that are new because I think 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:45.900 it makes it a lot less intimidating. Yeah. 00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:50.780 Because essentially I'm looking at my room, right? Or my camera or my computer or, you know, 00:13:50.780 --> 00:13:56.280 my office setup. And I'm not looking at a room with 10 people or 20 people or 100 people or 00:13:56.280 --> 00:13:56.980 whatever the case is. 00:13:56.980 --> 00:13:59.580 You're not getting those blank stares back that kill you. Yeah. 00:13:59.880 --> 00:14:03.900 Right. So I think from that perspective, it gives you a great opportunity to practice. It gives you a 00:14:03.900 --> 00:14:09.820 great opportunity to even just deliver content to a group of folks and just in a very natural way. 00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:13.960 Right. Because I could just imagine you being a lot more nervous when there's a stage and there's a 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.660 camera and there's lights and, you know, there's sound and, you know, there's kind of like we're in a 00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:22.480 room right now and there's a lot of background noise going on. Right. Like there's a lot of emotion that 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.160 kind of goes into that. And when you think about like how your emotions like, you know, 00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:30.420 affect your body and affect like the tone of your voice and the shakiness of your hands. 00:14:30.420 --> 00:14:33.620 They can just get you distracted. Right. They can break your thought patterns. And like, 00:14:33.620 --> 00:14:36.800 I knew I was going to do this thing in the presentation. Now I'm so freaked out that 00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:37.720 person's looking at me. 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:38.580 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:39.540 Right. Yeah. It's tough. 00:14:39.540 --> 00:14:43.480 Exactly. So I think it's a great opportunity for folks to do that. Even just me and Brian are 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:47.680 learning and getting better at becoming like Python folks. Right. Yeah. 00:14:47.680 --> 00:14:50.640 And engaging in the community and really just understanding, you know, 00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:56.520 what's possible and what we can do. 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Just visit talkpython.fm 00:15:38.500 --> 00:15:43.880 slash Linode when creating a new Linode account and you'll automatically get $20 credit for your next 00:15:43.880 --> 00:15:49.380 project. Oh, and one last thing. They're hiring. Go to linode.com slash careers to find out more. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:50.700 Let them know that we sent you. 00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:56.720 Brian, maybe tell me what was the first stuff that you started streaming on the channel? 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:01.160 You don't do just Python, right? I thought I saw some JavaScript stuff on one of your streams as 00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:03.640 well. Is that right? Yeah, I'm up to three shows now, actually. 00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:06.920 Okay. So I originally was just doing JavaScript-related stuff where I was building out 00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:10.980 a bot that interacts to make it more engaging for the viewers. It's built into the chat room there, 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:15.840 which lets them do commands and all that kind of fun stuff. That's an ever-growing and iterating on 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.240 that project. Is that like the bang mark and that type of stuff? 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:18.840 Yes, absolutely. 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:20.680 You built that and plugged that bot in? 00:16:20.680 --> 00:16:21.180 Yeah, yeah. 00:16:21.180 --> 00:16:22.960 Oh, I just thought that was a Twitch thing. That's cool. 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:23.580 No, no, no. Yeah. 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.100 All right, tell people how that works. 00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:26.020 Just real quick. 00:16:26.020 --> 00:16:29.640 Yeah, really quick. Basically, it's just listening through the Twitch API through the chat room. 00:16:29.640 --> 00:16:35.020 If you send certain keywords in there, prefix with an exclamation point, and it knows that that 00:16:35.020 --> 00:16:39.800 recognizes that's a command, it can do other things. So the first thing we ever built out was a 00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:44.060 light bulb in my office, people can change the color of that through a command in the chat room. So it's 00:16:44.060 --> 00:16:47.020 kind of interesting for a viewer to come in and be like, oh, wow. 00:16:47.020 --> 00:16:51.300 Was that just like a novelty or did they use it as productive? If they change it to red, 00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:54.460 that means slow down. If they change it to green, it means speed up or anything like that? 00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:57.800 I think a little bit of both, honestly. So some people, it's like, wow, that's cool. I'm changing 00:16:57.800 --> 00:17:03.140 somebody's light bulb color across the globe from wherever I'm in the world. But also, it's been 00:17:03.140 --> 00:17:07.920 helpful at times. If I get so focused in on that flow state where I'm working on something, 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.080 people can grab my attention and be like, hey, you actually missed this or something like that by 00:17:11.080 --> 00:17:14.960 changing the color of the light. Or if somebody does something nice like follows or subscribes to 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.620 the channel, it alerts me that way, that kind of thing. That's pretty awesome. 00:17:17.620 --> 00:17:21.360 I didn't start out doing that, actually. When I first started streaming, I didn't know what to stream yet. 00:17:21.360 --> 00:17:26.160 I just knew that JavaScript was my main language of choice to use. And so I just started going to, 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.960 have you heard of Code Wars, Doc? No, I've heard of Code Combat, but not Code Wars. 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:33.880 Very similar concept. It's just like little coding challenges and stuff like that. And so I was like, 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.760 on the weekend nights, I was like, let me try for an hour and get my feet wet doing this. 00:17:37.760 --> 00:17:41.140 And then it led into what we have today, where we have three shows. We have the Learning Python 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:46.700 from Scratch with Cecil. Just started up a Build Up Devs show, which is more about the social side, 00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:48.700 the human side of being developers in the industry. 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:50.260 Yeah, that's cool. That sounds really interesting. 00:17:50.260 --> 00:17:54.700 And then my Friday streams are just me being crazy, wacky, working on the chatbot and just being a 00:17:54.700 --> 00:17:55.020 goofball. 00:17:55.020 --> 00:18:00.320 Cool. So Cecil, maybe talk a little bit about what you guys cover on there. So you're going through 00:18:00.320 --> 00:18:07.480 Nina Zakarenko's course, which is a free Python course, bring to the show. Hi, Nina. And that's a 00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:09.560 two-day course that you guys have been going on for a while, right? 00:18:09.560 --> 00:18:15.180 Our teammate, Nina Zakarenko, she's also a cloud advocate at Microsoft with us. And she has a free 00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:20.200 course. It's at learnpython.dev. Totally free. It's actually a GitHub repo. And you know, you could 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:21.880 generate GitHub pages from a repo, right? 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:22.180 Yeah. 00:18:22.420 --> 00:18:27.420 Essentially, it's a GitHub repo that she generated and turned into like an online workshop. And now 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:34.100 with this workshop, there's two days. And essentially, it goes from very beginner Python concepts. And right 00:18:34.100 --> 00:18:39.320 now, we just finished our first day, maybe like two weeks ago or something like that. But it's taken us 00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:41.720 four months to do, which I think is kind of interesting. 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:46.380 It's super interesting, right? Because I mean, it's self-paced learning. And so it's kind of like 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:52.600 a whole day of maybe in-person, right? What do you say? It's like one day in-person. So if you were 00:18:52.600 --> 00:18:58.020 say to do that self-paced, maybe you do a couple hours a day, like a week, maybe a week to do a day, 00:18:58.020 --> 00:19:02.060 like if you're doing part-time. But you took four months. I mean, I know you don't do every day, 00:19:02.060 --> 00:19:07.340 right? But still, that's interesting. And I think it touches a little bit on giving people the sense 00:19:07.340 --> 00:19:10.260 of like the true interactive nature of what you guys got going on, right? 00:19:10.260 --> 00:19:14.580 Yeah, totally. When we first started this, I was like, oh, okay, we'll knock this out in two months 00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:20.600 and that'll be it. And then we'll do another thing, right? But it turns out that every section that we 00:19:20.600 --> 00:19:26.300 do, because we pay so much attention to what's happening in the Twitch chat room and as members 00:19:26.300 --> 00:19:30.820 that are watching kind of pop in and pop out, we get a lot of questions. We get a lot of suggestions. 00:19:30.820 --> 00:19:35.280 We get a lot of ideas about, hey, why don't you try this out and let's see what happens? Or, 00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:40.580 hey, could you re-explain this particular topic? Or did you know that there was this other language 00:19:40.580 --> 00:19:45.980 feature that wasn't necessarily covered in that section? But let's just try it on and see. 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:49.760 Here's list comprehensions, but you can also do it with dictionaries. And I didn't talk about that, 00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:52.820 but here we can do it here as well, right? It's kind of the same idea. 00:19:52.820 --> 00:19:57.900 Right. So just from that, that's how streaming once a week for three hours on a Wednesday 00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:02.900 turns into like four months of video, which should have been like a one-day section. 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:07.060 Right. But just because we've just been so thorough and just been answering tons of questions 00:20:07.060 --> 00:20:11.180 and, you know, like all the interactions that Brian has built into the stream from, 00:20:11.180 --> 00:20:14.720 you know, turning his light bulbs on and then there's little sounds that folks can play. 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:20.680 Brian, you've got like funny Wednesday sounds and stuff like, yeah, like it's very like appropriate 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:24.940 to Twitch, right? It feels like it's very, very much part of that community that those styles that 00:20:24.940 --> 00:20:25.360 you got there. 00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:29.960 Right. And that's one of the things that I think differentiates it from a webinar or live 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:34.960 streaming on YouTube or just putting out a YouTube video because YouTube has live chat. Sure. And, 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:39.020 you know, you could do live streaming there, but I think having the ability to customize that 00:20:39.020 --> 00:20:43.380 experience for the folks that are watching makes a huge difference and it makes them feel like they're 00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:45.560 a part of that video that we just produced. 00:20:45.780 --> 00:20:49.860 I did really get that sense that people feel part of it, that you guys welcome them when they come, 00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:56.240 that there's this deep exploration that they're a part of. And it does, you know, just to talk to the 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:02.000 audience for a moment, like it's really quite early days in terms of where you're starting, right? Like 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.240 you explain what virtual environments are and you said you started explaining like what a variable was. 00:21:06.520 --> 00:21:11.800 there's a lot of folks where there's not that level of training available, right? Like none of my 00:21:11.800 --> 00:21:17.080 courses assume you don't know what a string is necessarily. You know, I mean, it doesn't assume 00:21:17.080 --> 00:21:21.820 much, but there's like this sort of thinking like a programmer thing you got to do. And I feel like 00:21:21.820 --> 00:21:23.220 you guys are doing a good job helping. 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:28.700 I think one of the good things with what me and Brian end up having to do is because he has experience 00:21:28.700 --> 00:21:34.440 in JavaScript, I have most of my professional experience in .NET and C#, we're able to give the 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.380 perspective of, hey, we know a little bit about programming from other languages and frameworks 00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:43.120 and things of that nature. How can we apply that to Python and use that knowledge to make us good 00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:47.460 teachers? So even though we're not Python, even though we're not Python experts, and even though, 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:50.760 you know, we don't get paid to do Python, we don't have Python things in production, 00:21:50.760 --> 00:21:55.760 we don't have open source packages that folks are using, we do understand like some of the basic 00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:59.700 constructs of programming. And so we could use that background knowledge that we have to apply this 00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:00.940 to learning like this new environment. 00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:04.200 Brian, what was your experience in Python when you came into doing this channel here? 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:05.260 Like how much? 00:22:05.260 --> 00:22:10.020 The extent was, I could just recognize it when I would see it. I've like reviewed Python code kind 00:22:10.020 --> 00:22:10.300 of thing. 00:22:10.300 --> 00:22:10.580 Yeah. 00:22:10.580 --> 00:22:12.920 But that was the extent of my experience. 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:20.340 Okay. I feel like this is actually, it can be an advantage, right? It can be, I'm at a similar 00:22:20.340 --> 00:22:24.780 level as the people learning what I'm doing. So if they follow along with me, I'm not like, well, 00:22:24.780 --> 00:22:27.800 I don't know what, why can't you create a virtual environment and install this? Like, 00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:31.800 obviously that's an easy step. Let's get past that to the real, right? Like you're, you're going 00:22:31.800 --> 00:22:33.220 through these steps with them. 00:22:33.220 --> 00:22:33.500 Yeah. 00:22:33.500 --> 00:22:34.820 I think that's powerful, right? 00:22:34.820 --> 00:22:35.220 Yeah. 00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:37.620 What do you think? Do people react positively to that? 00:22:37.620 --> 00:22:42.340 Yeah. And so far it's been, we've gotten a lot of positive feedback because people will even go 00:22:42.340 --> 00:22:47.020 back to the past recordings because we post stream notes and video recordings on YouTube and you can 00:22:47.020 --> 00:22:50.340 catch them on Twitch, but Twitch will only do it for a certain length of time. They'll stay on 00:22:50.340 --> 00:22:50.440 there. 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:50.620 Yeah. 00:22:50.740 --> 00:22:54.100 And people will come in and they'll be like, Hey, I've been catching up where I'm almost up to your 00:22:54.100 --> 00:22:57.980 current episode, but thank you so much. This has been super helpful because I'm a beginner as well. 00:22:57.980 --> 00:23:02.300 And it's been a fun challenge for me, both from the aspect of like, I don't, I didn't know Python 00:23:02.300 --> 00:23:06.820 prior to this, but also to challenge myself to get back to the roots because, you know, I think we get 00:23:06.820 --> 00:23:11.760 so engulfed in, we've already learned that lower level stuff that maybe you got in college or whatever 00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:13.120 education background you might have. 00:23:13.120 --> 00:23:16.360 I just want to talk about the new features of Angular 2 or whatever, right? 00:23:16.360 --> 00:23:20.680 Exactly. Right. We get all hyped up about the new stuff and what we've already learned and take 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.580 for granted that kind of thing. So it's been a fun challenge to get back to that and be like, 00:23:23.580 --> 00:23:28.480 how do I explain what a variable is to somebody? Or how do I explain what a function is? You know? 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.700 And it's been really interesting from that perspective, right? 00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:35.920 Yeah. You talked about the videos being available on YouTube. And until I was talking to Cecil last 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:40.280 night, I didn't really realize that. I just went to the Twitch channel and there's like a video section. 00:23:40.280 --> 00:23:44.580 I'm like, oh, these must be the videos that I get to look from over in the past. But there's a whole 00:23:44.580 --> 00:23:48.260 separate YouTube story around like your channel and stuff people can check out? 00:23:48.260 --> 00:23:50.660 Yes, absolutely. So because what we're trying to do is, 00:23:50.660 --> 00:23:53.920 make it so that it's not just like a one shot and then it's gone kind of thing, right? 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:54.720 Right. Which is great. 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.800 We want to be able to, for my own benefit too, go back and reference like how did we set up those 00:23:58.800 --> 00:24:00.440 virtual environments that first time, right? 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:00.640 Yeah. 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:06.200 And so the one way we found to do that, well, it's twofold what we're doing. Exporting to YouTube, 00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:10.880 you can do that directly from Twitch. Twitch gives you that ability. And then creating like a blog 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.940 post stream note kind of thing that we've been posting on a website called Dev2, 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:20.420 which is like a very developer centric blogging thing. So it's kind of like we went from medium.com 00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:25.660 to do a lot of our tech blogging. And now Dev2 is like a more comfortable environment for specific 00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:26.080 to us. 00:24:26.080 --> 00:24:27.960 Yeah. What do you think about the medium story these days? 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:31.760 I've never really been too deep into blogging. So I don't know that I have a strong opinion one way 00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:36.660 or the other. I am really enjoying writing and posting on Dev2 nowadays because it's just 00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:40.080 marked down. I mean, not to say that you couldn't really do that in medium, I think, but... 00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:43.100 Yeah. There's just all that drama around medium going paid. 00:24:43.100 --> 00:24:43.720 Yes. 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:47.560 Putting up the paywall in a lot of places. And I think that struck a lot of people as a little bit 00:24:47.560 --> 00:24:48.280 off. 00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:52.880 From that perspective, as somebody that's a casual medium, I'll go there, like people link to it. 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:57.660 I get frustrated when I open up a website, whether it's on my phone or on a desktop, 00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:01.920 and I'm immediately presented with some type of notification, right? A platform that's supposed 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.540 to be allowed people to read. Maybe if I'm midway through it, hit me up with something like that. 00:25:05.540 --> 00:25:09.500 But like immediately, that's where it's like a huge turnoff for me. But that's with any site, 00:25:09.560 --> 00:25:10.580 not let alone medium. 00:25:10.580 --> 00:25:11.240 Yeah, yeah. Sure. 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:15.400 Cesar, what do you think about medium? Are you a fan? Did you see that as frustrating when they 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:16.960 went paywall? 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:21.320 Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. And I guess similar to Brian, it didn't really affect me as much 00:25:21.320 --> 00:25:23.680 because I'm not a big writer. I do a lot of video. 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:24.580 Yeah, yeah. Me too. 00:25:24.580 --> 00:25:28.640 I'm very comfortable in doing video and those types of things, whether it's for channel line 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:32.960 or the live stream that me and Brian are doing. I totally get it. And I understand why people 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:38.080 would want to have a certain level of trust and a certain level of integrity when it comes to 00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:38.940 their written content. 00:25:38.940 --> 00:25:43.120 The first several years where it was taking off, people felt that I'm writing on this platform 00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:48.360 that's open for everyone. And then it became not open somewhat, which I feel like a lot of those 00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:51.160 people wouldn't have gone there in the first place had they known that was the destination. 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:51.720 You know? 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:56.920 Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think one of the reasons why we do appreciate Dev2 is it's 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:01.860 built on open source technology. The code for it is all actually open source. You could go and look 00:26:01.860 --> 00:26:06.780 at it. You could contribute to it. It's open from the ground up, right? Which is a great thing. 00:26:06.780 --> 00:26:11.540 Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Yeah. So people can find this stuff on YouTube. That's cool. And we'll put 00:26:11.540 --> 00:26:16.380 that link in the show notes and they can go back and check it out. Brian, does it cost anything to be, 00:26:16.520 --> 00:26:21.800 as a participant to like join, to watch your channel or anything like that? Like how does it 00:26:21.800 --> 00:26:21.960 work? 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:23.640 No, everything is absolutely free. 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:23.980 Okay. 00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:27.200 You just pop in, start tuning in. You can listen to it passively. You could stay, 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:28.300 you know, really focused. 00:26:28.300 --> 00:26:31.080 Do you have to subscribe to get notified to get in? Or can I just like, 00:26:31.080 --> 00:26:34.300 is it just like go to like a YouTube video that's open or how does it work? 00:26:34.300 --> 00:26:37.200 Really? You just show up to the channel and you're able to catch everything. There's, 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.100 there are options to subscribe. I mean, so if you want to get notified when things go live, 00:26:41.520 --> 00:26:45.720 Twitch has a feature where you follow and then you can turn on notifications for when somebody 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:46.240 goes live. 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:49.620 Right. Like create a free Twitch account and then you can subscribe and get an email or something 00:26:49.620 --> 00:26:49.940 like that. 00:26:49.940 --> 00:26:53.200 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You create a free account. It doesn't cost anything to create an account 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.640 and then you can just start watching things. The way Twitch will maybe, you know, get you to make 00:26:57.640 --> 00:26:59.960 some money is you'll see ads when you go to people's channels that way. 00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:02.200 I see. Okay. A little bit like YouTube in that regard. 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:02.460 Yep. 00:27:02.520 --> 00:27:09.420 Okay. And as somebody else out there wants to do something like this, what's the story there? Like, 00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:13.260 do they have to be like a pro Twitch person or like, how's that work? 00:27:13.260 --> 00:27:17.860 No. I mean, it's very beginner. Well, it's not beginner friendly necessarily. It can be intimidating 00:27:17.860 --> 00:27:21.860 as somebody starting out wanting to start streaming on the platform or any platform in general. 00:27:21.860 --> 00:27:22.000 Yeah. 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:28.320 But the general advice that I give people that are beginning is to pick a dedicated time once a week 00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:33.200 that you can consistently stick to so that you can actually get a feel for what it's like to be 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:38.520 streaming and so that you don't necessarily, you know, lose sight of being able to continue to do 00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:43.120 it. Like what tends to happen is people think that they might want to start streaming and then they'll 00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:46.960 do one or two here and there and then they will, you know, they won't find the time to do it. 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:51.060 It's kind of like having a TV show, right? People come to expect to see you at a certain time and date. 00:27:51.060 --> 00:27:53.980 And if you're not there, then you lose that traction that you might get. 00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:58.700 Yeah. Probably even more so than blogging or even podcasting because it's the inner live 00:27:58.700 --> 00:28:02.860 interactive is the bit that's interesting. So you've got to have it on a predictable timeframe, 00:28:02.860 --> 00:28:03.460 right? 00:28:03.460 --> 00:28:07.760 Yes, for sure. And then the other bit of advice I'd say in terms of like actually setting it up 00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:12.120 technology wise, I mean, I could go into detail about what I use, but really I just say, keep it 00:28:12.120 --> 00:28:16.120 basic. Just have a camera and share your desk, a desktop and you're good to go. You know, 00:28:16.120 --> 00:28:20.340 have whatever microphone start simple and then build upon that as you start realizing that you're 00:28:20.340 --> 00:28:22.540 really into doing this. You enjoy it. 00:28:22.540 --> 00:28:26.740 Right. Yeah. I've seen some super elaborate setups that various people have, especially in the gaming 00:28:26.740 --> 00:28:27.520 world. Yep. 00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:33.920 You know, like racing simulators and all sorts of weird and crazy awesome looking setups. But yeah, 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.240 so you can get started pretty easy, huh? And I don't know. I mean, the mics that we're sitting here 00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:43.220 talking on, they probably sound pretty good. I guess the normal podcast mics and these are like $70. 00:28:43.220 --> 00:28:48.840 And I guess you probably wouldn't need much more than that. Plug it in the USB and you're good to go. 00:28:48.940 --> 00:28:52.980 For sure. You could definitely go that route, but I mean, use what you have to get started, 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:57.160 to get a feel, to make sure that you really are interested and dedicated to continuing doing it 00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:00.200 before you make that investment. Right. I think what ends up happening is people, 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.580 there's all kinds of options and things and hardware. You can geek out over it like crazy, 00:29:04.580 --> 00:29:04.880 right? 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:05.220 Sure. 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:09.200 Just like with that, like, I'm sure as you start getting into podcasts and you start off on certain 00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.100 types of hardware and then you dig deeper and you get into this elaborate setup that you got now. 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:17.020 I spent a ridiculous amount of money on microphones to end up back on like the cheapest option. 00:29:17.020 --> 00:29:17.680 Oh, really? 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.520 I spent over $1,000 on microphones. 00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:20.200 Oh my gosh. 00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:23.660 And these, like I said, are 70 bucks and I like them better than all those others. It's just like, 00:29:23.660 --> 00:29:27.760 you just got to search, right? But it would be ridiculous to do that at the beginning. But if 00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:32.260 I do this like two shows a week, every week for four years, it makes sense to like start to go 00:29:32.260 --> 00:29:33.300 see what works, right? 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:38.080 Right. Exactly. And I think people will get intimidated and it basically, they stop themselves 00:29:38.080 --> 00:29:41.080 before they even get started because they're worried about what they're going to use setup wise. 00:29:41.080 --> 00:29:45.460 And you'd be surprised that the viewers actually, they'll know that you're a beginner streamer, 00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:48.800 but that will make them feel even more involved with it because they're like, they're there, 00:29:48.800 --> 00:29:51.160 they're first, right? They're the first post on the, on the... 00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:51.800 They want to support you. 00:29:51.800 --> 00:29:56.120 Right. And so that makes it interesting. And then they'll see you evolve over time and add to it and 00:29:56.120 --> 00:29:58.940 support you that way. And that's what the culture is all about there. 00:29:58.940 --> 00:30:00.120 It sounds pretty welcoming, really. 00:30:00.360 --> 00:30:05.060 Yes, it absolutely is. I mean, I've had, I've for the most part had a very positive and pleasant 00:30:05.060 --> 00:30:09.460 experience with the developer community on Twitch. That's not to say there isn't some negativity in 00:30:09.460 --> 00:30:12.400 the, in the usual trolling kind of that goes on that happens every now and then. 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:12.620 It is online. 00:30:12.620 --> 00:30:16.660 Yeah, it is. We're on the internet folks, right? So, but for the most part, you'll see, you'll 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:19.720 see it's very, very kind atmosphere on the platform there. 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:24.340 That sounds really cool. It seems like it might be a good idea to like have a content calendar 00:30:24.340 --> 00:30:29.440 for in the early days, like before you do your first stream, like plan out what are the next, 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.540 what does the next month look like? Because I can really, I can see it'd be so easy to 00:30:33.540 --> 00:30:37.380 get really into it, excited, do the one or two things you had on your mind and then go, 00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:41.140 I don't really know what to do now. Like do you guys, you have a pretty long-term plan. 00:30:41.140 --> 00:30:42.940 I guess that's what with like the course, for example. 00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:44.800 I mean, I guess it's a long-term plan. 00:30:44.800 --> 00:30:45.660 You had no idea. 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:51.060 Again, when we first started this, it was Nina's course, learnpython.dev. It's two days 00:30:51.060 --> 00:30:56.640 and we're at month four, four plus now. And we're just in day one. I'm going to assume 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:02.100 that we got at least another four months of content. But we have spoken a little bit about 00:31:02.100 --> 00:31:05.100 what are some other things that we'd like to do just in terms of topics. 00:31:05.100 --> 00:31:06.840 Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. Like what else are you thinking? 00:31:06.840 --> 00:31:10.740 So, well, first of all, a lot of this too is also coming from the chat room, right? The chat 00:31:10.740 --> 00:31:16.100 room on Twitch, because we have a wide range of experience levels there from people that are 00:31:16.100 --> 00:31:21.740 brand new and I've never seen like code before to folks that write Python for a living. And, 00:31:21.740 --> 00:31:25.100 you know, again, just engaging with folks in the chat room and, you know, in the live stream, 00:31:25.100 --> 00:31:30.740 they suggest topics like, hey, can we talk about this? We did one last week on pipenv and 00:31:30.740 --> 00:31:36.540 on pyenv. And that was because some folks in the chat room, they kept asking about it. So we're 00:31:36.540 --> 00:31:39.320 like, well, let's just do it. Right. And now seems like a good time to do it. 00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:45.100 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You keep saying pip3-python-mvmv, right? Or something like that. 00:31:45.100 --> 00:31:48.580 And they're like, well, I've heard there's other things, right? So you could just make 00:31:48.580 --> 00:31:49.640 that the topic of the day. 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:53.820 Yeah. And what becomes important there now too is because we want to remain beginner friendly, 00:31:53.820 --> 00:31:59.140 it's important that we have a certain amount of like foundational content there first, 00:31:59.140 --> 00:32:03.020 right? Because when the first, well, I think the first time somebody suggested it, 00:32:03.020 --> 00:32:07.840 I was like, you know, that seems like a little bit ahead of like where we want to be right now. 00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:08.180 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:10.920 It seems a little bit intimidating. It was intimidating for me. 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.600 How about we start with like some machine learning car, like can we do self-driving 00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:19.080 cars and put it on like an RC car? Like let's start there, right? Like maybe not. 00:32:19.080 --> 00:32:23.840 Folks have asked about Docker, they've asked about machine learning, about web stuff. But again, 00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:28.280 like we're in day one, right? Four months later, we're in day one. But we're just trying to make 00:32:28.280 --> 00:32:32.340 sure that cover our bases and make sure that everybody understands what is a function and 00:32:32.340 --> 00:32:36.960 understands what's conditional logic. And then what is an environment and what is pip and what is a 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:41.740 package? And like, where does this code come from? Like, does it just come from outer space and now 00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:46.240 I just use it? Like, you know what I mean? Like what do those things look like? Because I think unless 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:50.540 you have that foundational information, you're not going to understand the benefit of using this tool. 00:32:50.540 --> 00:32:51.140 Yeah. 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.980 And so it's answering the question for like that one person, like let's answer it for everybody 00:32:54.980 --> 00:32:57.220 and just make sure that we're all on the same foundation. 00:32:57.380 --> 00:33:01.740 I find it very powerful to say, it's one thing to write down, here's what you do to do a thing. 00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:07.080 It's all, it's entirely another to see like, here was a blank screen and nothing complicated happened. 00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:11.540 And then now here's something awesome created, right? Like I think just seeing that built up 00:33:11.540 --> 00:33:15.500 is a really powerful experience that it seems like that's like a good part of the channel. 00:33:15.500 --> 00:33:19.920 Like you have screen sharing, you got the editor open using VS Code a lot of the times, 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.760 right? And you're just over there working on that. That's really great for beginners. 00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:27.000 There's a lot of opportunity on both sides of the table. I've definitely learned a lot. I'm sure 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.520 Brian will say the same thing. He's definitely learned a lot. It's definitely affected even our 00:33:30.520 --> 00:33:36.400 jobs, to be honest with you. This portion of Talk Python To Me is brought to you by the University 00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:42.480 of San Francisco. Learn how to use Python to analyze the digital economy in the new master's in applied 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:46.980 economics at the University of San Francisco. 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That's talkpython.fm/USF. 00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:36.400 Tell us about that. How has it influenced you outside of just what you're doing on the channel 00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:36.700 itself? 00:34:36.700 --> 00:34:42.080 Sure. So under developer advocacy, it's more than just .NET and it's more than just JavaScript. There's a 00:34:42.080 --> 00:34:47.180 whole ecosystem of languages and tooling and libraries and SDKs and those types of things. 00:34:47.180 --> 00:34:53.520 We were talking about it yesterday. The Python SDK for Visual Studio is tens of millions of downloads. 00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:58.080 It's easily one of the most popular ones that's there. But now, knowing Python a little bit better, 00:34:58.080 --> 00:35:02.340 I could go in and look at some of these features and understand why would these features be beneficial 00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:03.520 and why would you care about them? 00:35:03.520 --> 00:35:07.140 Right. Or maybe even give feedback to the team like, yeah, technically this works, but it's not 00:35:07.140 --> 00:35:09.640 the way the community would first guess, right? 00:35:09.640 --> 00:35:13.940 Yeah, totally. Definitely can be able to do things like that. And now, even again, at day one, 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.980 right, four months later, I'm thinking about, well, what does it feel like to publish a Python 00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:18.800 web application? 00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.020 Yeah. 00:35:19.020 --> 00:35:23.680 So I have a background in web development and web APIs from a .NET perspective. You know what 00:35:23.680 --> 00:35:28.280 I mean? Again, like Brian knows about Express and Node and JavaScript things. Now I'm kind of 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.400 curious, what does it look like to take that existing knowledge and apply it to Python, right? 00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:33.540 How much is it the same? How much is it totally different? 00:35:33.540 --> 00:35:36.820 How much is it the same? What does it feel to actually publish something and build a web API 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:42.660 and build a web front end and add JavaScript to it and CSS? What does that publishing tool 00:35:42.660 --> 00:35:46.600 chain look like? And how does it feel like for us publishing it to Azure? Because again, 00:35:46.600 --> 00:35:50.260 we work in Azure and Azure pays the bills, right? So we got to talk about that a little bit. 00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:52.260 Brian, how about you? How's it affected your role here? 00:35:52.260 --> 00:35:56.080 Very much the same what Cecil was saying. We're seeing opportunities where we can help contribute 00:35:56.080 --> 00:36:00.820 in those respects to Python outside of the ones that we kind of got hired on for. 00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:05.600 But in addition to that, like case in point in Microsoft Ignite here, I just gave my first talk 00:36:05.600 --> 00:36:11.380 that involved Python ever at Ignite of all places. So yeah, it's been really fun and exciting. 00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:16.400 And it's kind of nice to just add that to the developer tool belt, my skill set there, right? 00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:21.000 Yeah, I'm sure it lets you connect with that whole area of the industry that maybe just being a pure 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.060 JavaScript developer didn't really, you know, you couldn't relate to as well. 00:36:24.060 --> 00:36:24.440 For sure. 00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:28.520 What's your plans for topics? Have you guys decided? I know you got four, 00:36:28.520 --> 00:36:33.220 four more months of Nina's course, but do you actually have any idea what you're doing next? 00:36:33.220 --> 00:36:34.500 No, I have no idea. 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:34.860 Yeah? 00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:40.200 No, I'm just kidding. I mean, well, so with my other streams, I probably the Python stream series that we 00:36:40.200 --> 00:36:44.940 have, it's probably the one that we have, or the one I have that's most planned out, honestly. 00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:50.080 The other ones, I just kind of like, I have a general direction and I just kind of go with it. 00:36:50.080 --> 00:36:53.980 With ours, we're going to finish going through Nina's, looking at Cecil to make sure we're on 00:36:53.980 --> 00:36:55.020 the same page. I think we are. 00:36:55.020 --> 00:36:56.900 Yeah, you're going to decide on the spot right here. 00:36:56.900 --> 00:37:00.900 Everybody's going to hear it in the podcast now for the first time. 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:01.540 Exclusive. 00:37:02.120 --> 00:37:05.440 So we're going to finish up the course, and I think we're going to start building out 00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:10.240 like little tools and fun ways to like integrate that, like getting to the point, like Cecil 00:37:10.240 --> 00:37:13.860 was saying, where we're going to publish something in production and run it. That would be maybe 00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:18.020 even interact with the chat room and through the Twitch stream and that kind of thing. 00:37:18.020 --> 00:37:22.740 Right, right. Maybe some sort of API out there on Flask or something that then like drives, 00:37:22.740 --> 00:37:24.660 who knows, people could talk to you and something happens. 00:37:24.660 --> 00:37:31.540 Yeah, and the other thing I've been itching to get into doing is a little bit IoT, which is what I spoke 00:37:31.540 --> 00:37:32.160 about here at Ignite. 00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:33.000 Sure, yeah, yeah, okay. 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:37.280 In particular, like a lot of times my office at home, running all this stuff, this hardware to do the 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:41.720 stream, it gets hot in there and I have to, you know, this is a lazy moment here, right? But I have 00:37:41.720 --> 00:37:46.460 to get up and I have to turn my fan on to cool the room off so that I, but like that's me stepping 00:37:46.460 --> 00:37:52.180 away from the show so I can go do that. So I'd love to have the IoT device listen for the temperature 00:37:52.180 --> 00:37:57.500 with Python, you know, maybe trigger the fan to go on its own kind of thing. But we'll 00:37:57.500 --> 00:37:58.280 see where we go with it. 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:04.860 It does sound a little bit lazy, but I also find like when I'm recording a show or I'm doing 00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:08.820 something where I'm like programming, I'm deeply engaged, you don't feel like it's a little 00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:14.620 hot. Like you get like knocked out of your flow and like, dang, it is hot in here. How 00:38:14.620 --> 00:38:19.100 is it so hot? And then you're like, got to get up and it like breaks your thought, right? 00:38:19.140 --> 00:38:22.340 Like in your live streaming, I think you don't want to do that, right? 00:38:22.340 --> 00:38:25.460 Exactly. You're getting all sweaty. You got the headphones on covering your ears, you know, 00:38:25.460 --> 00:38:27.020 it's three hours later, right? 00:38:27.020 --> 00:38:31.400 Dang, I'm tired. Well, it was 95 degrees in your attic. What was I doing? And you guys are 00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:34.480 both in Florida where that's a legitimately common thing, right? 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:34.900 Yeah. 00:38:34.900 --> 00:38:41.260 Yeah. I wanted to ask you about the interaction with the audience. So maybe Cecil, I'll go to 00:38:41.260 --> 00:38:45.180 you first on this one. What I've seen when people come in, they'll like send you feedback 00:38:45.180 --> 00:38:49.920 or say, I have a question about this or what if you, it's cool that you wrote the code this way, 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:54.420 but what would happen if we, you made this tweak to it, right? Have you, or do you have any plans 00:38:54.420 --> 00:39:00.300 of having like deeper requirements for participation? Like, Hey everybody, like what I want you to do is 00:39:00.300 --> 00:39:03.700 write this program and then we're going to come discuss it. Or I want you to read this, 00:39:03.700 --> 00:39:08.180 this article and then we're going to dive into it or like anything like where people will need to 00:39:08.180 --> 00:39:10.980 come more prepared or is it all just like drop in and like take it in? 00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:15.380 I think we've loosely spoken about it. So again, like if you look at Nina's course, 00:39:15.380 --> 00:39:17.340 there is a practice section. 00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:17.640 Okay. 00:39:17.640 --> 00:39:22.040 So again, so it's, it's two days and each day, at least the first day was split up into eight 00:39:22.040 --> 00:39:27.040 separate modules. And at the end of the module is a practice section, which kind of is, you know, 00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:31.720 just exercises and muscle memory exercises that you could do to, you know, remember what we just did. 00:39:31.720 --> 00:39:36.980 And we don't usually do that one on stream. That's usually like an exercise that we leave for 00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:41.260 the folks that are looking at the YouTube video and the live stream to kind of do it yourself. Like we 00:39:41.260 --> 00:39:45.480 encourage, Hey, well, you know, we didn't do this little piece of it, but please you go ahead and 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:49.220 for your own practice and, you know, just understanding, like go ahead and play around with it. 00:39:49.220 --> 00:39:53.360 But I can imagine like going forward in the future, we can have more ways for people to 00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:54.520 interact with things. 00:39:54.520 --> 00:39:58.440 I don't know if it's with the Zen of the show, right? Like if you have too much of a requirement, 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:02.020 it might, the people who would just drop in might turn them off. Right. But 00:40:02.020 --> 00:40:06.200 we don't want to do it in a way that it makes you feel left out. Yeah. 00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:11.460 Like if you come in and week 20 and this is your first time being on the show, right? You should 00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:16.400 still feel very welcome and included in whatever it is that we're talking about. You know, subject 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:20.600 matter may or may or may not be a little bit over your head, depending on like what your experience 00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:24.500 level is, but you should still feel welcome to like sit in the room. Right. And we're all at the 00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:25.560 table and we're all learning together. 00:40:26.020 --> 00:40:30.420 We spoke a little bit about having like a submission form for like, like questions, 00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:33.140 but for questions and for also topics. Yeah. 00:40:33.140 --> 00:40:36.180 When this thing is done, like what are some of the things that you want to learn about? And 00:40:36.180 --> 00:40:39.340 maybe you could do like a voting thing. Right. You could let them vote on it and see what one 00:40:39.340 --> 00:40:42.520 gets voted up or something like that. Yeah. Like do like a voting thing. But I think anything 00:40:42.520 --> 00:40:47.500 that we do in terms of interactivity would be very subtle. It won't be like, you have to do 00:40:47.500 --> 00:40:50.880 this else you can't sit in this chat room kind of thing. It's not going to be like, 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.040 yeah, it won't make any sense unless you've deployed your app yet. Yeah. It's not going to be that 00:40:54.040 --> 00:40:57.600 serious, but you know, hopefully it'll be something fun and interesting. And you know, 00:40:57.600 --> 00:41:01.720 maybe we'll turn on some more lights in Brian's office, you know, turn on his fan and stuff like 00:41:01.720 --> 00:41:05.580 that. You know, we'll see what happens. The IoT thing is fun. It's definitely got a good Python 00:41:05.580 --> 00:41:09.620 angle, right? You could do MicroPython or CircuitPython. Are you thinking of getting something 00:41:09.620 --> 00:41:12.880 from like Adafruit or something like that, Brian? Well, it's so funny you say that because that's 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:16.580 what the talk was about. It was the CircuitPython Express by Adafruit. Nice. Yeah. That's such a 00:41:16.580 --> 00:41:20.880 cool little device, right? Like it's 25 bucks and it's got quite a bit of smarts on it. Oh my gosh. 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:25.760 Yeah. I'm so blown away by it. Like all everything that's built into that little device that you can 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:29.500 do. And it's just so fun. It's great. But the same sense that we're talking about before, 00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:32.920 beginner friendly type stuff. If you're looking to get introduced to programming, introduced to 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:39.640 electronics, that thing is a great way to go about doing it and introducing yourself or students, 00:41:39.640 --> 00:41:43.420 that kind of thing into the whole atmosphere. Yeah. I feel like the programming for that stuff is not 00:41:43.420 --> 00:41:49.440 too intense often as well. It's not like, well, we've got these 10 files and here's where the CSS is 00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:54.340 and here's the database migration. It's like, usually there's like the code.py or main.py and 00:41:54.340 --> 00:41:57.820 you kind of just put it there and it's pretty straightforward. Yeah. They did a fantastic job 00:41:57.820 --> 00:42:02.360 of making that device, like removing the friction, right? Of setting up all the things. All you do is 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:07.360 change the code.py file and you're good to go. It'll recognize that you made changes and load it all up 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:11.080 and get things running. It's really interesting. You know, it came from the BBC micro bit. I, 00:42:11.080 --> 00:42:15.440 that the whole idea of the micro Python stuff, I think certainly that's where it first was, 00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:21.620 was used a lot. And there were a bunch of really interesting studies around exposing kids to that. 00:42:21.620 --> 00:42:26.220 Like I think every seventh grader in the UK or something got one for one year and they did a 00:42:26.220 --> 00:42:33.160 bunch of studies and girls were way more likely to say like coding is something that I would consider as a 00:42:33.160 --> 00:42:38.580 professional profession compared to, you know, before or after, before, you know, other groups 00:42:38.580 --> 00:42:43.220 who didn't do that or whatever. And it's, it just seems like that little hands-on bit has such a 00:42:43.220 --> 00:42:47.680 powerful effect, especially for, for kids who, you know, don't want to wait for like a website to be 00:42:47.680 --> 00:42:51.560 built like really a long ways. I think that's fantastic. And anything that can help make it 00:42:51.560 --> 00:42:55.660 more welcoming and encouraging for people to, you know, of all kinds of backgrounds and experiences 00:42:55.660 --> 00:42:59.560 to join in on it is a fantastic thing. Yeah. I actually even experienced it with my own 00:42:59.560 --> 00:43:03.280 daughter as I was preparing the talk. I was, you know, tinkering with the device, getting acquainted 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:07.620 with it. And so we have it set up to where if you shake it, it will turn the lights on or off. 00:43:07.620 --> 00:43:11.480 And she's only two years old, but she's still like, wow, look at these lights, you know, like it's going 00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:15.360 on and off. And I thought that was the coolest thing. And I'm glad I have it now because it'll be a 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:20.040 great way to like give her the opportunity to explore that area out. And if she's interested in it, 00:43:20.040 --> 00:43:23.840 that's super cool. Cecil, do you do anything with your son? How old is he now? Cameron's seven. 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:29.420 Yeah. We haven't done anything in terms of like getting him on the keyboard to like type stuff or 00:43:29.420 --> 00:43:33.640 anything like that. It's a little bit early because like the working with the words and the letters, 00:43:33.640 --> 00:43:36.780 probably that age is still just a little challenging, but like it's soon, right? 00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:41.900 What I have done. So like there's this little robot set that he got and robots as in like they're 00:43:41.900 --> 00:43:46.020 cardboard robots. Okay. But essentially what it does is that one, it kind of gets you in the habit of 00:43:46.020 --> 00:43:50.860 like putting pieces together. Then the robot becomes functional, right? So like there's a lever and 00:43:50.860 --> 00:43:56.120 the arms raise and the head tilts and it does like stuff like that. And then there's this one other, 00:43:56.120 --> 00:44:01.540 I guess, I don't know if it's really coding or not, but it's like a programming tool where you have 00:44:01.540 --> 00:44:06.180 like this little robot, like a real robot, like a little plastic thing with wheels on it. And there 00:44:06.180 --> 00:44:10.240 is a input device that has three buttons on it, right? There's right, left and there's forward. 00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:16.140 And you could, depending on the combination that you put in, you could use it to like, it'll detect the 00:44:16.140 --> 00:44:20.240 wall. Like there's a sensor in front of it. You can tell it what to do when it sees a wall. 00:44:20.240 --> 00:44:25.780 Right. So you put in the input by that little device and then you could have it like go through 00:44:25.780 --> 00:44:29.660 like an obstacle course. I see. I'm trying to remember what the device is called. I honestly 00:44:29.660 --> 00:44:32.500 don't remember. But the sequence is like, it's one of the many toys in this room. 00:44:32.500 --> 00:44:36.320 Right. And then left and then right, then right. And so you can like hit that key combination 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:37.740 or something like that. Yeah. 00:44:37.740 --> 00:44:42.360 Right. Right. So you, you know, you put some blocks and whatever cases on the floor and you put in a key 00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.240 combination. But you know, at some point, like you're going to hit the wall of the room. Like, 00:44:46.240 --> 00:44:49.920 what does it do when it sees the wall? Right. So like he's done things where he just, 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:54.640 he has it turned up the opposite way around and like does the obstacle course in reverse or, 00:44:54.640 --> 00:44:58.120 you know, have it go out in the hallway or, you know, just have it do different things. 00:44:58.120 --> 00:45:03.920 And it also has like a, like a backhoe thing, like a, like a scoop in front of it. So now you can have 00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:06.640 it like pick things up and move around and like put it somewhere else. 00:45:06.640 --> 00:45:08.600 Go get your Lego and carry it around or something. 00:45:08.600 --> 00:45:10.520 It's kind of programming. Kind of not. 00:45:10.620 --> 00:45:13.320 Yeah. It's like programming without the words. 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:15.180 There's no computer programming. 00:45:15.180 --> 00:45:18.540 Right. And that's what I kind of want to do. I want to get in the mental mind, 00:45:18.540 --> 00:45:22.720 the mindset of problem solving and not necessarily like being in front of the screen. Cause no, 00:45:22.720 --> 00:45:26.660 this is something that we could do in the backyard or on the porch or in the living room. Like you 00:45:26.660 --> 00:45:29.840 don't have to be on a screen, on a tablet or on a smart device to kind of do it. 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:32.060 That's cool. Yeah. My daughter, who's 11 and in sixth grade, 00:45:32.060 --> 00:45:37.400 she was really into codecombat.com where you go and you go into the dungeon and you solve the problem. 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:41.200 You actually type Python, but it's like the auto complete is so incredible. 00:45:41.200 --> 00:45:46.140 Like you can say hero dot attack enemy and you type a and it auto completes that whole line. 00:45:46.140 --> 00:45:46.620 You know what I mean? 00:45:46.620 --> 00:45:46.880 Yeah. 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.680 And like, yeah, it's, so there's a bunch of cool opportunities around that. 00:45:50.680 --> 00:45:55.760 So maybe Brian, let's talk a little bit about your setup. I know you said people can get started 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.980 just like with whatever, but I was kind of wondering, cause when I go and watch you, 00:45:59.980 --> 00:46:05.280 you're sort of just a disembodied person stuck in the corner, right? You've got like a cool green 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:10.580 screen and some mics and you've got like a bunch of stuff that will rain down. Like you can like do 00:46:10.580 --> 00:46:15.920 all these little sounds and you talked about the light. So maybe give people a sense like where you 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:18.340 could go with like hardware and setup and stuff. 00:46:18.340 --> 00:46:24.020 I originally was streaming from my MacBook pro, like the 2016 kind of model. And I found that it can work 00:46:24.020 --> 00:46:28.060 on there just fine streaming from there. But you know, the fan starts spinning up and like, 00:46:28.060 --> 00:46:32.180 that's all you hear. Right. And you could tell it's just really cranking out as hard as it can to 00:46:32.180 --> 00:46:36.040 support all this, right? Sure. Okay. And so then I, of course, being the technologist 00:46:36.040 --> 00:46:40.240 enthusiast that I am. Maybe something with two G forces in there would be better. 00:46:40.240 --> 00:46:45.520 Yeah. So I built out a custom PC that I could use for gaming and for this. So it was kind of like 00:46:45.520 --> 00:46:51.240 twofold there. And that thing is more powerful to handle streaming. So like, obviously the better the 00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:55.360 hardware that can do a lot of the video encoding and uploading and having a good internet connection 00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:57.660 through your internet service provider is key. 00:46:57.880 --> 00:46:59.780 What's the resolution you stream at? 00:46:59.780 --> 00:47:01.220 I stream at 1920 by 1080. 00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:01.860 That's pretty high. 00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:05.320 Fairly high. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's really the range that you kind of want to 00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:10.820 be at. Well, mostly for gaming because I was doing some game streaming. So you could go down to 720p 00:47:10.820 --> 00:47:14.840 if you wanted to. And people won't mind that, especially for programming. 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.980 Yeah. Sometimes it helps to have the smaller resolution so you can actually read like the 00:47:17.980 --> 00:47:21.600 menu items and stuff a little bit. But yeah, it's always a trade-off, right? 00:47:21.600 --> 00:47:22.000 Right. 00:47:22.100 --> 00:47:26.280 All right. So you got this pretty awesome PC that you built out. 00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:31.900 Yep. And then I have a combination of cameras, cameras that I had are really work related that 00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:34.780 I'm using for that, that we do and shoot other videos with. 00:47:34.780 --> 00:47:38.560 Are these like fancy webcams or DSLRs or... 00:47:38.560 --> 00:47:43.500 I started out with just like the Logitech C920, which is like the standard go-to one that like 00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:44.900 every streamer pretty much is using. 00:47:44.900 --> 00:47:45.280 Yeah. Okay. 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.180 It's relatively priced well. And I think they have a newer model now, so you can probably even get that 00:47:50.180 --> 00:47:55.800 one, the 920 at a cheaper price than what it used to be. But then the big one that I use that I don't 00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:00.220 take advantage of the full capabilities of it because I'm a little bit limited with some of the hardware 00:48:00.220 --> 00:48:05.480 that I have, the interfaces with that. But I have a Canon XC15, which can do 4K at 60 frames per 00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:10.980 second. Okay. That's pretty awesome. But I'm only really getting 1080p at like 30 frames per second. 00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:15.220 Right. But that's just for your body, which is like a small little thing in the corner. So right. 00:48:15.220 --> 00:48:18.800 It's probably fine, right? That's why I'm not worried about it. Like I could upgrade to another 00:48:18.800 --> 00:48:22.640 device that captures that video at the higher resolution and frame rate. Maybe if you were 00:48:22.640 --> 00:48:27.620 streaming like just you and not you plus screen. Absolutely. Yeah. So yes. And then I use the green 00:48:27.620 --> 00:48:31.060 screen to help because the big thing, like you were talking about before, you want to be able to see 00:48:31.060 --> 00:48:37.520 a lot what's going on. And so I grabbed the green screen to help remove some of my background so 00:48:37.520 --> 00:48:41.880 that people could see what's behind me. If something's going on there, notifications or 00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:44.960 whatever, that'd be available. What mic do you use? What microphone? Yeah. 00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:49.000 Rody Podcaster. That's a pretty good one. That's one of the ones I've tried. 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:50.560 I don't know. That's how you pronounce it, right? 00:48:50.560 --> 00:48:53.900 For sure. I've definitely tried that. But it's not necessarily the best, but then I have software 00:48:53.900 --> 00:49:00.660 that helps clean up a lot of my audio. I'm using VoiceMeeter, Potato, and Cantabile to help do some 00:49:00.660 --> 00:49:04.800 pre-send. I don't even know the technical terms. I'm just winging it, honestly, with this stuff, 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:09.000 man. Yeah. But it's doing a lot of noise filtering pre-before it even gets into VoiceMeeter and then 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:14.480 into my streaming software, which is all for-this is all-well, VoiceMeeter you could pay for. It's 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:19.700 like Nagware, right? They will ask you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then there's a free version of 00:49:19.700 --> 00:49:23.160 Cantabile. The main streaming software you're going to be using if you want to get started is called 00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:25.720 Open Broadcasting Software or OBS, OBS. Okay. 00:49:25.720 --> 00:49:30.020 That thing can be very intimidating, but once you get, there's tons of YouTube videos out there that 00:49:30.020 --> 00:49:34.320 will help you get acquainted with it. And once you get the kind of gist of it, you'll really be able to 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.060 come up with some cool stuff like you've seen on the stream there. 00:49:37.060 --> 00:49:39.820 Yeah. Yeah. The stream is super cool. I think you're doing a really nice job. 00:49:39.820 --> 00:49:40.560 Thanks. 00:49:40.560 --> 00:49:45.840 Yeah. I mean, I guess give us, if somebody want to do that, what's the price tag? Is it expensive? 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:50.100 Like how much of this stuff costs money? Obviously the road podcasters like do $300. 00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:54.660 Like I was saying before, I would start simple. Use whatever you can and then slowly iterate on 00:49:54.660 --> 00:49:59.320 there and add to it. Right. But I don't even know honestly what I'm up to because I've been, 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:05.080 it's like every couple of months, maybe not even, I haven't even done a recent hardware update. I've 00:50:05.080 --> 00:50:09.100 just been happy with the setup now that I'm at, but I would say like every couple of months or so, 00:50:09.100 --> 00:50:12.520 I would like look to see, all right, let me see if I can upgrade the microphone or I can upgrade this 00:50:12.520 --> 00:50:15.360 aspect of it. That's what my advice would be around that. 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.640 Okay, cool. And Cecil, you're pretty, pretty much just using like your podcast stuff and whatnot. 00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:25.180 I definitely had some podcasting material equipment from before. 00:50:25.180 --> 00:50:25.460 Yeah. 00:50:25.460 --> 00:50:30.340 So I have a Scarlet box, very similar to the Scarlet box you have right now, you know, 00:50:30.340 --> 00:50:35.100 and I have just have like an XLR microphone and that's really about it, right? Like I have some 00:50:35.100 --> 00:50:39.020 software on my computer that I used to use for like audio filtering and those types of things. 00:50:39.100 --> 00:50:43.920 But that's really about it. The stream is not coming off of my machine. So essentially what 00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:49.520 happens, Brian and I are not in the same location when we're streaming. So I will call him via some 00:50:49.520 --> 00:50:51.740 video conferencing software and he'll just like... 00:50:51.740 --> 00:50:53.260 Like Zoom or Skype or something like that? 00:50:53.260 --> 00:50:57.100 Zoom or Skype or whatever the case is. And then he'll like just put me in into like a frame, 00:50:57.100 --> 00:50:58.200 like on the screen. 00:50:58.200 --> 00:51:02.020 And you can do that with this open broadcast software? That is fancy. That's awesome. 00:51:02.020 --> 00:51:03.420 Yeah. Obvious is pretty cool. 00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:03.740 Yeah. 00:51:03.740 --> 00:51:07.860 So you can have different screens and different setups. So now we can have one where both of us, 00:51:07.860 --> 00:51:12.920 both of our faces are on screen. Or I think he has another scene where I could share my desktop. 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:18.320 And so now my desktop is like in full view, right? And we just have like little floating heads in the 00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:18.520 corner. 00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:18.960 Right, right, right. 00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:23.740 And so that helps too, right? So now we could both be on screen, but now you have a full view of the 00:51:23.740 --> 00:51:26.920 code and the editor on my desktop and whatever else we're talking about. 00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:29.160 Yeah. It looks like Brian's really got it dialed in. That's awesome. 00:51:29.160 --> 00:51:32.980 Yeah. So I'm lucky. I just piggyback off of whatever he's doing. I just show up and talk. 00:51:32.980 --> 00:51:35.180 Brian does all of the hard work. 00:51:35.180 --> 00:51:38.900 We patch in the sound effects and everything that people can play so that he can hear when 00:51:38.900 --> 00:51:44.740 things happen. It's kind of hard being on a video call. You don't want to have the stream up on your 00:51:44.740 --> 00:51:49.740 machine and the volume loud so it comes through your microphone. So I patch all the audio into the 00:51:49.740 --> 00:51:54.000 video call with him so that he can hear it. And it's all through that voice meter potato software. 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:54.660 It's super helpful. 00:51:54.660 --> 00:51:57.260 Your own little broadcasting booth. It sounds like it. 00:51:57.260 --> 00:51:58.120 It's a ton of fun, man. 00:51:58.120 --> 00:51:59.780 It's open. What's the name of the software again? 00:51:59.780 --> 00:52:04.360 Open broadcasting software. It's up on GitHub. You get it for free. It's open source. It's cool. 00:52:04.360 --> 00:52:07.880 That's awesome. All right, guys. Well, I think we're getting pretty short on our time and this 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:13.880 booth is going to run out. So really quickly, one question each to close out the show. When you're 00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:16.520 writing some code, what editor do you use? 00:52:16.520 --> 00:52:17.520 Visual Studio Code. 00:52:17.520 --> 00:52:18.320 All right, Cecil. 00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:21.360 This is not even fair. I also use Visual Studio Code. 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.980 All right, right. Not a big surprise, is it? Especially with some of the announcements today. 00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:29.280 That's cool. All right, guys. Thanks so much for being on the show and sharing your look inside the 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:30.920 Twitch stream and all that. It's been fun. 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:34.900 Yeah, awesome. And I'd definitely love for folks to check it out. And we'll have the links and stuff 00:52:34.900 --> 00:52:39.600 like that inside of the show notes. So hopefully you could see us every Wednesday at 11 o'clock 00:52:39.600 --> 00:52:42.480 at 11 a.m. Eastern Standard Time on Twitch. 00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:43.900 All right, awesome. Thanks. Bye. 00:52:44.700 --> 00:52:49.260 This has been another episode of Talk Python To Me. Our guests on this episode were Cecil 00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:53.880 Phillip and Brian Clark. And it's been brought to you by Linode and the University of San Francisco. 00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:59.400 Start your next Python project on Linode's state-of-the-art cloud service. Just visit 00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:05.860 talkpython.fm/Linode, L-I-N-O-D-E. You'll automatically get a $20 credit when you create a 00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:11.560 new account. Learn how to use Python to analyze the digital economy in the Masters of Applied Economics 00:53:11.560 --> 00:53:17.980 at the University of San Francisco. Just go to talkpython.fm/USF to find out more. 00:53:17.980 --> 00:53:23.820 Want to level up your Python? If you're just getting started, try my Python Jumpstart by Building 00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:29.620 10 Apps course. Or if you're looking for something more advanced, check out our new async course that 00:53:29.620 --> 00:53:34.020 digs into all the different types of async programming you can do in Python. And of course, 00:53:34.020 --> 00:53:37.880 if you're interested in more than one of these, be sure to check out our Everything Bundle. 00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:42.780 It's like a subscription that never expires. Be sure to subscribe to the show. Open your favorite 00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:47.700 podcatcher and search for Python. We should be right at the top. You can also find the iTunes feed at 00:53:47.700 --> 00:53:54.540 /itunes, the Google Play feed at /play, and the direct RSS feed at /rss on talkpython.fm. 00:53:54.540 --> 00:53:59.160 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. Thanks so much for listening. I really appreciate it. 00:53:59.160 --> 00:54:00.960 Now get out there and write some Python code. 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:01.460 Thank you. 00:54:01.460 --> 00:54:03.460 Thank you. 00:54:03.460 --> 00:54:05.460 Thank you. 00:54:05.460 --> 00:54:07.460 Thank you. 00:54:07.460 --> 00:54:09.460 Thank you. 00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:11.460 Thank you. 00:54:11.460 --> 00:54:13.460 Thank you. 00:54:13.460 --> 00:54:15.460 Thank you. 00:54:15.460 --> 00:54:17.460 Thank you. 00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:19.460 Thank you. 00:54:19.460 --> 00:54:21.460 Thank you. 00:54:21.460 --> 00:54:51.440 Thank you.