WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:05.740 What do web servers do most of the time? They wait. They wait on external systems while processing a 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:10.020 request. Think about a standard web request to an e-commerce site where you're logged in. 00:00:10.020 --> 00:00:15.220 You send a session cookie and request to a URL. It pulls a bunch of items from the database, 00:00:15.220 --> 00:00:20.840 maybe a Redis cache, and even talks to an external API. And that is exactly the situation 00:00:20.840 --> 00:00:25.880 AsyncIO is built for. But to take advantage of it in the Python web frameworks, the framework 00:00:25.880 --> 00:00:31.440 itself has to support AsyncView methods. That's what SANEC was built to do. On this episode, 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:35.840 you'll meet Adam Hopkins, who is leading the SANEC project. This is Talk Python To Me, 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.560 episode 188, recorded November 27th, 2018. 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:58.500 Welcome to Talk Python To Me, a weekly podcast on Python, the language, the libraries, the ecosystem, 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:03.180 and the personalities. This is your host, Michael Kennedy. Follow me on Twitter where I'm at, 00:01:03.180 --> 00:01:08.480 mkennedy. Keep up with the show and listen to past episodes at talkpython.fm. And follow the show on 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:11.540 Twitter via at Talk Python. Adam, welcome to Talk Python. 00:01:11.540 --> 00:01:13.720 Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 00:01:13.720 --> 00:01:18.360 Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. I'm really excited to talk about asynchronous web frameworks 00:01:18.360 --> 00:01:23.080 with you, in particular, Sanic. But before we get to that story, let's start with yours. How'd you 00:01:23.080 --> 00:01:23.980 get into programming in Python? 00:01:23.980 --> 00:01:30.720 I started getting into programming mostly in high school, but I've sort of been around computers 00:01:30.720 --> 00:01:38.220 all my life. I mean, my dad had computers when I was a kid in the 80s, and I really remember not 00:01:38.220 --> 00:01:42.740 having computers. I've always been very comfortable, you know, tinking around and playing with them. 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:49.840 But I think I really got started into programming mainly by, I wanted to build a website. I was 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:56.560 interested in trying to put things online, and I started to build some stuff. And I mainly started 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:03.500 out working with PHP, because at the time, that was sort of the big kingpin if you wanted to put 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:05.600 something online, and it was easy to get started. 00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:08.520 Yeah, it's definitely, and it's still massive on the web. 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:16.880 Yeah, it is. I think WordPress definitely helps get people started, and is a really good intro and a 00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:24.500 nice tool for people. And I kind of had my own, I don't want to call them problems, but I started, 00:02:24.500 --> 00:02:29.580 I felt like every time I was working in PHP, I sort of needed to keep one eye on the documentation, 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:31.240 because I could never remember. 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.920 Yeah. It wasn't obvious. It wasn't clear. It's just one of those languages, right? 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:40.720 Exactly. You know, one time there's a function, and the parameters are needle and haystack, 00:02:40.720 --> 00:02:46.760 and the next time the search is haydl and e-stack, and I can never remember which way the namings 00:02:46.760 --> 00:02:52.340 convention. And so I started looking around to try to find something else. 00:02:52.340 --> 00:02:56.260 You're like, it's got to be better than this. Other people use other tools. What are we going to use? 00:02:57.060 --> 00:03:04.060 Exactly. And I did know a little bit about Python, and more, you know, just, I'm going to write a script 00:03:04.060 --> 00:03:10.360 and print out Hello World type stuff. I mean, nothing sophisticated at all. And at the time, 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:16.340 this was just about when Django had been released. And Django had been released, and I think Ruby on 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:21.920 Rails was out there. So it was a question of, like, here are these two different ways, and which way am I 00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:27.960 going to go? And I picked one, and I'm happy that I picked Django because it led me down a nice path, 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.320 I think. 00:03:28.320 --> 00:03:32.420 Yeah. And I think that's, you know, that's a pretty, I don't know if it was luck or just good, 00:03:32.420 --> 00:03:37.840 but it was definitely a good choice that you went that way. I feel like Rails has definitely lost a 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.760 lot of the favor that it had. I know there's a lot of projects out there that's still built on Rails, 00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:47.560 but it doesn't seem to have the shine that it did five years ago. 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:53.100 No, and kudos to the Django team. I mean, I think what they're doing is pretty amazing that they continue 00:03:53.100 --> 00:03:59.460 to build a great product that's still very relevant and still hugely popular. I don't know, the framework's 00:03:59.460 --> 00:04:02.740 got to be, what, 15 years old maybe at this point? Maybe not quite. 00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:06.960 Yeah, but it's been around for a while, so that's pretty awesome. And did you practice law for a while? 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.920 I did, I did. 00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:11.000 Tell us about that. That's far from programming, typically. 00:04:11.640 --> 00:04:17.820 Well, yeah, so I didn't go to school as, you know, I'm not a computer science major or anything like 00:04:17.820 --> 00:04:22.060 that. Everything that I know about programming is entirely self-taught. I went to school, 00:04:22.060 --> 00:04:29.380 I graduated from George Washington University in DC, and I went to law school after that. After 00:04:29.380 --> 00:04:37.000 law school, I practiced law for about five years. And all during that time, I didn't really ever lose 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.300 touch with programming, but it was a hobby for me. Building things was, 00:04:41.520 --> 00:04:50.200 it was a hobby and was not my day-to-day job. But in 2014, my wife and I decided that, you know, 00:04:50.200 --> 00:04:55.400 we were living in Massachusetts at the time, and we decided that we were going to move across the world 00:04:55.400 --> 00:05:02.660 to Israel. And it was sort of as this life-changing time, and we decided, you know, we're going to make 00:05:02.660 --> 00:05:08.760 this move. And as part of that, we're going to assess our career paths. I felt very lucky that I sort of was 00:05:08.760 --> 00:05:16.280 able to take what had been my hobby and now turn it into a career. And I think that's a pretty fortunate 00:05:16.280 --> 00:05:21.600 thing. I think it's great. And I definitely think it's one of the real benefits of being in technology. 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:26.340 We have so many ways of working that are just asynchronous already. Even when we're together, 00:05:26.340 --> 00:05:32.360 right? We all use GitHub and Slack or email or whatever. Right. And you could be 5,000 miles away 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:36.200 and still do that, right? That's pretty awesome. Yeah. I mean, the team that I'm working on, 00:05:36.200 --> 00:05:43.620 working with right now, it's a pretty small group of guys. But, you know, I'm in Israel. There's a 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:51.500 couple of guys in Ohio or North Carolina, Brazil. Like the team is, you know, we exist as a team. We 00:05:51.500 --> 00:05:57.020 function day to day as if we're a team and interact, you know, like it's, you know, the guy sitting right 00:05:57.020 --> 00:06:02.460 next door, but really he's literally halfway around the globe. Yeah. That's pretty awesome. So maybe 00:06:02.460 --> 00:06:07.940 that's a good segue into what you do day to day. Like, are you doing, what do you work on day to day? 00:06:07.940 --> 00:06:16.580 Sure. So my day job, I work with a company called Matrix Retail and their main product is geared towards 00:06:16.580 --> 00:06:22.980 retail companies that have a lot of different... Like Macy's or some Target or something like that. 00:06:22.980 --> 00:06:29.380 Exactly. The type of companies that exist in malls across the U.S. I mean, they're mostly U.S.-based. 00:06:29.380 --> 00:06:36.360 And the idea is they're constantly getting all this data, you know, how many sales they had, 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.280 how many transactions, how many people are walking in and out of the store. And we sort of take all of 00:06:42.280 --> 00:06:49.700 that data and try to make a projection for what their sales are going to be. And then once we have 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:57.380 that information, we can create a schedule for their staff. And so we determine you're predicting to have 00:06:57.380 --> 00:07:03.340 a thousand dollars worth of sales during this particular hour on this particular day. And 00:07:03.340 --> 00:07:08.320 how many people do you need to have in the store to be able to reach that thousand dollars of sales, 00:07:08.460 --> 00:07:13.020 but not have too many people that you're just paying for people to stand around doing nothing? 00:07:13.020 --> 00:07:16.180 Interesting. So you're kind of like load balancing, but for employment. 00:07:16.180 --> 00:07:20.260 That's actually a great way to put it. I like that. 00:07:20.260 --> 00:07:21.500 There you go. 00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:26.800 You know, I think one of the bigger complications in that is, you know, it's not just a matter of 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:31.760 how do you slot people into the right place, but then you've got to deal with jurisdictional laws. 00:07:31.880 --> 00:07:37.840 So one place, you know, shift might need to be, can't be shorter than three hours. And another 00:07:37.840 --> 00:07:43.480 place, there can't be two shifts that are closer together and they need to have meal breaks and 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:47.820 have to be a certain length. And so all these sort of validation rules we have to take into account. 00:07:47.820 --> 00:07:50.560 And it makes for a pretty complex puzzle. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:55.760 I'm sure it does actually. Anytime law gets involved, it's crazy as I'm sure you know, but it 00:07:55.760 --> 00:07:57.020 is this in Python? 00:07:57.020 --> 00:08:01.880 The application itself runs a pretty big stack of a bunch of different technologies. 00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:03.640 A lot of it is in Java. 00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:04.480 Like most places, right? 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:10.980 Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's true. A lot of the stack is in Java, the earlier stuff. And 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:18.200 what I've been working on is creating sort of a new API on top of what's currently existing to 00:08:18.200 --> 00:08:24.200 get some more features, get a little bit more performance. And actually that's a lot of how, 00:08:24.200 --> 00:08:30.760 how I came into, to using Sanic. We can get into that a little bit later, but all this new stuff that 00:08:30.760 --> 00:08:39.060 I'm adding is all in Python and load balanced across a pretty big cluster using Kubernetes and 00:08:39.060 --> 00:08:41.200 some other fun tools like that. 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.020 It sounds like you're using a lot of cool technologies. And I think it's really cool using 00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:54.080 Sanic for that microservice bit. So you said we're switching to Python because it's for speed and to 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.720 make it fast in addition to adding features, which I think is, you know, so many people who are not 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.740 deeply involved in Python, like, oh, Python's slow and there's parallels and we can't do this and 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:07.060 whatever. And here you are choosing it for it. And it's working out well, I would imagine. 00:09:07.060 --> 00:09:12.940 Yeah. I think, I think anybody that's, you know, sort of a Java developer out there is yelling at 00:09:12.940 --> 00:09:18.220 me saying, how could that possibly be true? But, but it is, I mean, you know, we're, we can benchmark 00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:22.500 some of the stuff that we've got in Java versus some of the stuff that we have running now. 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:27.800 And we're definitely running a lot faster, a lot leaner. Our memory usage is, is a lot lower. 00:09:27.800 --> 00:09:34.220 So we're able to handle a lot more, a lot more connections and a lot more request response cycles 00:09:34.220 --> 00:09:36.940 a lot faster, which is, which is the most important thing at the end of the day. 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:42.900 Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's so interesting. It's just, there are so many aspects to performance 00:09:42.900 --> 00:09:47.640 in Python. And I certainly want to go down that rabbit hole, but you've got like the concurrency, 00:09:47.640 --> 00:09:52.760 you've got like C and Cython implementations. You've just got all these things that, that are 00:09:52.760 --> 00:09:57.440 really interesting. And then you throw in the web app where web apps are mostly talking to external 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:02.740 systems and are not themselves computationally heavy, but they're more orchestration in a sense, 00:10:02.740 --> 00:10:06.620 right? So there's just so many, many cool things in the, it sounds like you've got a cool 00:10:06.820 --> 00:10:07.500 architecture going there. 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:11.400 What I was just going to say is on that point is, is it's, you know, to get that performance, 00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:16.960 it's sort of figuring out what are the right tools that you need to be able to, to achieve 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:21.980 that. So we're using, we're using Sanic to sort of power our microservice architecture, but, 00:10:21.980 --> 00:10:27.800 you know, we're also pushing stuff off to, a queue, the task you're using salary. 00:10:28.560 --> 00:10:33.220 if you're familiar with that tool, it's, it's, it's basically, you know, we've got a server 00:10:33.220 --> 00:10:38.080 sitting somewhere else and we're just pushing messages off to it and letting it sort of handle 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:43.360 all these background tasks. And, you know, instead of creating these big, large queries and running 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:48.360 them on Postgres, we're caching a lot of stuff inside of Redis. That is, so it's sort of like a top to 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:53.800 down, top to bottom, approach of, of where can we, where can we make things faster? 00:10:53.800 --> 00:10:58.040 Right. And using the right architecture, like asynchronous queues, for example, can just 00:10:58.040 --> 00:11:02.640 make all the difference. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So maybe this is a good, good place to start 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:07.420 talking about, some of the web frameworks and some of these ideas. And before, you know, 00:11:07.420 --> 00:11:13.380 so Sanic is a web framework based on Python's async event loop, asyncio and the async and await 00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:18.320 keywords and all that. And we'll get into all those details, but before we dig in, like not everybody 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.800 is using these, these newer features, right? Like asyncio only came out in three, four, 00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:28.960 and then really, I think properly in three, five with async and await. So maybe, maybe just tell us 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:34.260 what is asyncio and why is it really good for web apps? Sure. Well, first I think, you know, 00:11:34.260 --> 00:11:40.580 everybody should be maybe using it. Maybe that's too broad of a statement, but, I really, I really, 00:11:40.580 --> 00:11:49.860 asyncio is a, is a great standard library module that was added to sort of be another answer to 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:57.400 how can Python achieve concurrency. So we have some of the other modules that exist, including, 00:11:57.400 --> 00:12:02.820 uh, multi-processing and threading and stuff like that. And, and while this answers some of the same 00:12:02.820 --> 00:12:07.060 questions, it does it in a sort of different way. Yeah. When you think of these other, all the 00:12:07.060 --> 00:12:12.400 traditional ways we've got multi-processing, we've got threading, and then of course, you know, like 00:12:12.400 --> 00:12:18.120 APIs built on top of those like execution pools and whatnot, but all of those involve some sort of 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:24.480 forking. But asyncio is inherently doesn't even necessarily use multiple threads or processes at 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:30.080 all. Right. Yeah. It's sort of a simpler methodology and cleaner methodology in that, you know, you're 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:37.260 still running everything on, on a single process, but you're basically just taking the idea of start 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:42.460 working on something in our case in a web framework, it's a request and you start working on it and 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:47.520 processing it. And you get to a point where you say, well, I need to go find some information 00:12:47.520 --> 00:12:52.380 somewhere else. So I'm going to pause here. And while I'm pausing here, let's go see what else needs 00:12:52.380 --> 00:12:58.860 to get done. And actually it's very much sort of like what we're, what I'm doing in my day-to-day job. 00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:03.900 And, you know, we're trying to figure out, you know, you've got an employee and he's coming in for 00:13:03.900 --> 00:13:10.500 a five hour shift and you want to figure out how do you keep your, your person employed during those 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:16.760 five hours without having just standing around doing nothing, wasting time and money is, you know, 00:13:16.760 --> 00:13:23.240 there to do, to work. So let's figure out how to make your, your web workers produce the most you can 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:28.960 get for them. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the whole IO bit of asyncio, right? It's right there 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:34.620 in the name is what it's for, right? Like it doesn't help you for computational things at all, 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:38.420 right? You really only have one thread and if you start doing computational stuff, you know, 00:13:38.420 --> 00:13:43.500 you're just cute. You're just doing them in order, right? Yeah. But for web apps, their main job is to 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:49.480 talk to a database, talk to other microservices, talk to a queue, and then they just wait, right? And so 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:54.120 it's the perfect time, perfect way to structure these web apps is to say all the time that you're 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.700 waiting on these external systems, we're going to go do other work, right? Other requests. And that's 00:13:57.700 --> 00:14:03.680 basically the idea behind Santa, right? Absolutely. It's using async. It's not like a magic bolt. 00:14:03.680 --> 00:14:08.240 It's going to make things run faster. It's just, it's going to make things run more efficient. I think 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.760 that's a better way to put it. Yeah. It's not going to be just idly waiting around. It's going to be 00:14:12.760 --> 00:14:18.660 working on something else. It's a really good multitasker, I guess. But I'll go back to this. All right. 00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:24.980 So what, so Sanic is one of these async Python web frameworks, but there are others. Like, 00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:29.860 what are some of the other ones that people might compare to if they're, if they're like shopping for 00:14:29.860 --> 00:14:35.760 this type of framework? The ones that first come to mind are aiohttp. That's another big one. 00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:41.600 Jepronto, you mentioned them. I think they've sort of stopped working on developing on that project. 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:46.860 I don't know if that one's still with the status of that or not. Yeah. I remember coming out around the 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:53.620 Sanic. I feel like it did stall out. I'll have a look. It's a really interesting project. And I think 00:14:54.160 --> 00:14:59.380 what they did with it, it's a great approach. And it's a little bit different than Sanic's approach, 00:14:59.380 --> 00:15:06.320 because I believe Jepronto is written a lot in C, which makes it extremely fast, but it also makes it a 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:12.600 little bit more difficult for, I think, the everyday Python programmer to pick up and look under the hood 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:20.000 and make some changes or where they might need to. Yeah. And looking at the repo, it's 50% C, 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:28.140 50% Python, and it had a ton of contributions and work on it back up till April 2017. Then you're 00:15:28.140 --> 00:15:29.700 right. It kind of just went on pause. 00:15:32.660 --> 00:15:38.660 This portion of Talk Python To Me is brought to you by us. Have you heard that Python is not good for 00:15:38.660 --> 00:15:43.880 concurrent programming problems? Whoever told you that is living in the past because it's prime time 00:15:43.880 --> 00:15:49.580 for Python's asynchronous features. With the widespread adoption of async methods and the async and await 00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:55.220 keywords, Python's ecosystem has a ton of new and exciting frameworks based on async and await. 00:15:55.220 --> 00:16:00.320 That's why we created a course for anyone who wants to learn all of Python's async capabilities, 00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:08.800 async techniques and examples in Python. Just visit talkpython.fm/async and watch the intro video to see if this course is for you. 00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:14.940 It's only $49 and you own it forever. No subscriptions. And there are discounts for teams as well. 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:19.940 Any others that people might consider? 00:16:19.940 --> 00:16:25.440 Court is another one. I think you've talked with the guy that built Court on your show before. 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.940 I have. Yeah. Court's really nice as well. 00:16:27.940 --> 00:16:35.080 And I've actually been in contact with him a little bit. He's given us some ideas on where we can add into some stuff. 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.080 ASGI to send. We could talk a little bit about that later. 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:45.220 But he's been a pretty helpful resource. And I think the one more that I want to mention that's out there. 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:49.220 It's I think the newest on the scene is called Vibora. 00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:53.360 Vibora. Yes. Vibora looks very interesting as well. Although I haven't done anything with Vibora. 00:16:53.360 --> 00:17:03.360 Yeah. I haven't tried it out to see what it is. It does a little bit more than what I would personally like from a web framework, from a micro framework. 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:08.360 I like to handle a lot of things like caching and templating and stuff like that myself. 00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:12.600 And it comes with a lot of that. So for a lot of people, that might be a might be a plus. 00:17:12.600 --> 00:17:15.720 So it's another another one to definitely put out there. 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:19.620 Yeah, it's interesting. I tried to play with it a little bit. And for some reason, it kept crashing. 00:17:19.620 --> 00:17:25.080 Not in the sense like it said you're doing something wrong, but it would just like the process would die. 00:17:25.080 --> 00:17:27.260 And I was a little underwhelmed with it, I guess. 00:17:27.260 --> 00:17:31.040 But definitely looks like it has a lot of promise. It maybe just needs a little polish. 00:17:31.540 --> 00:17:45.880 So let's get back to Sanic, which to me seems like maybe along with Cort, one of these async modern Python web frameworks that you really can use and depend upon. 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:54.600 You know, like I mentioned earlier, I'm using it now in production. It's definitely production worthy and operational and it's pretty reliable. 00:17:54.600 --> 00:18:00.300 I mean, itself is still a pretty new framework, but I mean, anything that's going to be in this field is going to be fairly new. 00:18:00.320 --> 00:18:07.020 Because like you said, in sync IO is hasn't been a part of the standard library since version 3.4. 00:18:07.020 --> 00:18:13.200 So yeah, and it's really 3.5 where it actually became, you know, has the proper keywords to make it easy. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:13.820 Yeah, exactly. 00:18:13.820 --> 00:18:14.680 Easy to program. 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.240 So maybe just give us the quick flyover of Sanic. 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:23.300 Sure. It's probably probably good to mention that is Sanic does use those those keywords. 00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:26.300 So it's place. It's Python 3.5 and up only. 00:18:26.300 --> 00:18:33.380 I know there are some asyncio tools that you can still use 3.4 with, but you're not gonna be able to do that with Sanic. 00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:34.580 So 3.5. 00:18:34.580 --> 00:18:34.960 Yeah. 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:38.540 I think most things have 3.5 if they have 3.5 at all, all these days. 00:18:38.540 --> 00:18:45.500 How do you feel about this Python 2, Python 3 thing? Do you feel like we've kind of, we're downhill headed towards 3.3 and beyond? 00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:48.880 Yeah, it's done. It's over. Game set match. 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.360 Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. So yeah, this framework here, for example, like you have to have not just 3, but 3.5. 00:18:55.360 --> 00:18:59.000 So cool. So it depends on that. It's a lot like Flask, right? 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:04.860 It is. And I think the original idea behind it, and I'm not the guy that developed it. 00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:19.840 The person that developed it is a guy named Michael Hill, and he originally created the API, and it looks very much like Flask, where you've got decorators and these blueprints so that you can sort of nest your functionality. 00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:26.340 And it looks a lot like Flask, but obviously being asyncio, it operates differently. 00:19:26.340 --> 00:19:33.100 Yeah, absolutely. So for example, all of Vue methods can be async def instead of just def, right? 00:19:33.560 --> 00:19:41.860 And you can use a weight in them and so on. Do you have to use, does everything have to be async? Or can you do like blocking work in there as well? 00:19:41.860 --> 00:19:49.200 Well, you could, for example, create a function that is, you know, a regular def and doesn't have to be async. 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:57.540 It certainly would be better too, because that's where you're going to be able to sort of see this performance benefits. 00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:04.340 Because by definition, just about everything that we do in Python is going to be some blocking involved. 00:20:04.340 --> 00:20:13.440 So you can't avoid blocking code at all. But by using a tool like asyncio, you're giving yourself an opportunity to alleviate. 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:19.800 Yeah, exactly. So I'm guessing, what I was getting at is like, well, what if I'm using some library, and it doesn't support asyncio? 00:20:20.060 --> 00:20:30.100 Let's say, let's say MongoEngine, for example, or something like that, I could still make those calls in there would just be taking less advantage of its async potential, right? 00:20:30.280 --> 00:20:38.960 Exactly, exactly. So, so if you're going to use an ORM, say SQLAlchemy or PeeWee or something like that, you could still use it and it'll still function. 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:45.440 But what's going to happen is when you make that call, and it goes to make that network call to your server, it's going to block up your whole process. 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.180 And you're not going to be able to start handling a new request during that timeframe. 00:20:49.180 --> 00:20:55.720 Now, there are ways that you can get around that and use some of these other tools that are async enabled. 00:20:55.960 --> 00:21:05.320 Right. So the primary thing that you would do, the first thing that you might do is like, say, I'm using library X to talk to, let's say, Redis. 00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:13.240 It would be to go out and say, is there a asyncio enabled variant or extension or something to that library, right? 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:14.040 Absolutely. 00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:16.140 Maybe talk us through, yeah, talk us through that. 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:26.020 Sure. I think one of the first things that I do when I need to do to answer that question is, are you familiar with these awesome lists that are, you know, kind of circle around GitHub? 00:21:26.020 --> 00:21:29.180 Yes. Awesome Python and whatnot, things like that. 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:31.200 Exactly. I like to go take a look at those. 00:21:31.300 --> 00:21:39.460 There is one for asyncio stuff and it lists, you know, a number of different ORMs and stuff like that that are on there. 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:48.000 I do a lot of work in Redis and there's two different packages in Redis that async enabled Redis that I like to use. 00:21:48.540 --> 00:21:59.320 One of them is called a Redis, where if you did pip install Redis, you get a very popular library that's out there to interact with Redis. 00:21:59.320 --> 00:22:02.760 And this pretty much mirrors the exact same API as that. 00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:04.680 You just put a Redis instead of Redis. 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:12.580 And the second one is called a IO Redis, which also has an async enabled API to be able to access your Redis layer. 00:22:12.760 --> 00:22:21.180 Yeah. So I think many of the different packages people are out there using, there is some variant or some alternative that they can switch to. 00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:31.780 But I just bring it up because it's not like, you know, having an asynchronous method, view method is going to just magically make your SQLAlchemy call or your MongoEngine call or whatever. 00:22:31.780 --> 00:22:33.900 Just start being concurrent, right? 00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:41.260 You're going to have to go and get a library that allows you to write, await this query, await that insert, et cetera. 00:22:41.260 --> 00:22:55.240 Yeah. And I think if you're going to get started in doing the work in a framework like Sanic or one of these other async enabled, one of the first things I think you should do is figure out how you're going to talk to your data layer and figure out which one of these tools works best for you. 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:58.040 There's a number of them and they're growing every day. 00:22:58.040 --> 00:23:01.340 And I feel like I continually get to see new ones. 00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:03.460 And I think it's an exciting time for Python. 00:23:03.460 --> 00:23:04.600 I think it absolutely is. 00:23:04.600 --> 00:23:08.180 I think the async and await stuff is really unlocking a lot of the potential. 00:23:08.540 --> 00:23:26.840 I'm especially excited for Sanic and some of the similar projects because while we've had these cool keywords in this capability, it's not until you can actually create asynchronous web methods that you can actually really break that thing loose and use it where it makes a lot of sense. 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:27.540 Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:27.540 --> 00:23:29.880 So, yeah, it's an exciting time for sure. 00:23:30.280 --> 00:23:33.680 So what are some of the ways that we might get around these dependencies? 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:42.340 So step one, go and find another library that does the similar or same thing that you're doing but has coroutines and async methods and whatnot. 00:23:42.340 --> 00:23:43.840 That's option one. 00:23:43.840 --> 00:23:50.440 If for some reason that fails, is there a way it can use threading or multiprocessing or some kind of background queue or something? 00:23:50.520 --> 00:23:57.620 Is there something else I can do to not block up my web async I.O. loop and still work with them? 00:23:57.620 --> 00:24:00.420 The question is, could potentially get really messy? 00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:07.380 If you're going to take and start a new, say, a new thread inside of your loop. 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:08.300 Could be done. 00:24:08.300 --> 00:24:09.240 Could be done. 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:10.040 That's a different question. 00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:10.660 Yeah. 00:24:10.660 --> 00:24:12.520 I think that's probably... 00:24:12.520 --> 00:24:18.680 So you could have a background thread that's always running for each worker process and then a queue that you drop something off. 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:19.760 An in-memory queue. 00:24:19.760 --> 00:24:21.280 You drop something off and it picks it up. 00:24:21.280 --> 00:24:23.800 Like, say, subscribe this person to a mailing list. 00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:27.100 For some reason, the API that does that doesn't support async I.O. 00:24:27.100 --> 00:24:33.760 And I think for the most part that would work, but it's definitely not super good, is it? 00:24:33.760 --> 00:24:51.060 If the goal is to do something like that, I would highly suggest upgrading to Python 3.7 and then you get to use async I.O. queues, which is a fairly new feature, which basically you could just start pushing off tasks to this async I.O. queue and let them handle it. 00:24:51.060 --> 00:25:00.780 And I think the great use case for that is I take a request, I'm processing it, I need to send out an email, push that off to this queue and be done with it. 00:25:00.780 --> 00:25:13.220 A little bit more involve method, like you said, you could do something with threading or use another package like celery, which is something that I've had good success using for a number of years. 00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:20.700 So I'm still using it inside my async I.O. stack because it really solves a good problem for me. 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.260 Yeah, it does. 00:25:21.260 --> 00:25:29.140 So we've got our web code, we're writing our async methods, we're awaiting all these calls, everything's working pretty well. 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:34.000 Beyond that, it looks quite a bit like Flask, which I think is really a good thing. 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:42.140 There's a couple of things I'd like to maybe call out that are either less well known about Flask and is relevant here as well, or this enables. 00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:43.760 And one of them is blueprints. 00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:50.800 So typically when people say, I'm going to go create a Flask app, they all, they say, well, what you do is you create the app.py and you. 00:25:50.800 --> 00:25:55.400 You allocate the app and then you use app, you know, as a decorator app.route and you put it on these methods. 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.200 Boom, you're done with Flask, right? 00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:58.500 And that's cool for a demo. 00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:07.580 But if you have hundreds of view methods broken up by categories of like, here's the store views and here's the user management views and here's the reporting. 00:26:07.580 --> 00:26:09.720 And you don't want to cram that all into one file. 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:17.020 And so Flask and Sanic both have this idea of blueprints to help you partition your projects into different pieces. 00:26:17.020 --> 00:26:17.920 Do you want to talk about that? 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:18.200 Sure. 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:25.140 I think there's a big difference between, you know, looking at the tutorial, it's got 10 lines and here's how to get started. 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:25.640 Wow. 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:26.200 It's amazing. 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:27.840 You know, hello world. 00:26:27.840 --> 00:26:29.240 It's such an easy thing. 00:26:29.300 --> 00:26:32.620 But then you get to the question of how do I actually build something? 00:26:32.620 --> 00:26:34.840 Like, how is this usable? 00:26:34.840 --> 00:26:39.940 How does it not become a giant mess of one huge app.py file, right? 00:26:39.940 --> 00:26:40.820 Yeah. 00:26:40.820 --> 00:26:42.280 Maybe you like one giant file. 00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:44.300 Maybe that's your... 00:26:44.300 --> 00:26:45.720 But, you know... 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:52.120 But if you don't, then it becomes a bit of a challenge of juggling that app.route stuff around. 00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:52.600 Exactly. 00:26:52.600 --> 00:26:57.040 And I think it's, you know, something to do is, okay, you've decided you're going to do async. 00:26:57.040 --> 00:27:02.160 You've decided on your data access layer and, you know, which one of these tools you're going to use. 00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.620 And then the next question, I think, is how am I going to organize this? 00:27:05.620 --> 00:27:10.320 Am I going to have one Sanic server that's going to handle all my requests? 00:27:10.820 --> 00:27:17.560 Or maybe I need to have 10 different services and they're all going to be connected and they're all going to be responding to different things. 00:27:17.560 --> 00:27:27.920 And within each one of those things, maybe we need to have one little unique entity called a blueprint that's going to handle certain information. 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:30.560 And maybe you need to have, you know, 10 of these. 00:27:30.560 --> 00:27:34.980 So, for example, maybe you're going to have authentication be one blueprint. 00:27:34.980 --> 00:27:37.680 And maybe you're going to have users be another blueprint. 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.000 The idea is just to organize and structure your code. 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:49.820 One thing that Sanic also has is what's called a blueprint group, which does exactly that. 00:27:49.820 --> 00:27:52.400 It just takes a bunch of blueprints and it groups them together. 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.480 And one of the big benefits here is for routing purposes. 00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:57.600 Yeah, that's cool. 00:27:57.600 --> 00:28:02.480 So, basically, instead of saying app.route, you say blueprint.route. 00:28:02.800 --> 00:28:04.260 And you kind of reverse it. 00:28:04.260 --> 00:28:14.480 In your main startup file, you import all the blueprints and you register them with the app and say, here's a whole bunch of subparts of my web framework and their routes and their view methods. 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.580 Put them all together here and then run it. 00:28:16.580 --> 00:28:18.320 The group sounds pretty interesting. 00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:19.480 I didn't know about that. 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:19.720 Yeah. 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:27.560 And one of the big other benefits you get with blueprints is you don't have to be passing around your app object all over the place. 00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:28.560 So, if you're going to have... 00:28:28.560 --> 00:28:29.720 Yeah, that gets really tricky. 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:30.260 Yeah. 00:28:30.260 --> 00:28:31.100 Exactly. 00:28:31.100 --> 00:28:37.100 So, it gives you a way to sort of register these views to something. 00:28:37.620 --> 00:28:41.840 And then when you finally have your app and you're creating your app, they all git added on at that point. 00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:46.160 So, you don't need to create these crazy global variables or anything like that. 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:46.440 Yeah. 00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:54.460 I think it's a really nice way to break apart different parts of Flask or Static apps into little sections that are more self-contained. 00:28:54.460 --> 00:28:56.440 And then you can import them into the main app. 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.060 It's sort of a personal preference of mine. 00:28:58.120 --> 00:29:01.520 I don't know that I necessarily say this is the way you have to do it. 00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:08.420 But I like to have each one of my different endpoints sort of be like its own blueprint. 00:29:08.420 --> 00:29:12.940 And at max have two or three different methods that are attached to it. 00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:16.600 I like to try to keep things as organized as possible. 00:29:16.600 --> 00:29:18.940 And mainly that's for development purposes. 00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:23.560 It's when I've got an issue or I need to make an update or fix a bug or something like that. 00:29:23.560 --> 00:29:29.960 It's a lot easier for me to navigate when I've got everything very finely grained, broken up into different files. 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:31.280 Yeah, that's the same way I do it. 00:29:31.280 --> 00:29:32.300 And I really like it. 00:29:32.300 --> 00:29:37.800 You know, if you're in this file, this is the type of stuff you're working on and just that. 00:29:37.800 --> 00:29:42.800 So, another thing that Static makes pretty easy is WebSockets. 00:29:42.800 --> 00:29:48.340 And that's been traditionally a little tricky in regular Python code, right? 00:29:48.340 --> 00:29:49.500 Because it'll just block up. 00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:53.760 How are you just going to wait on this bidirectional communication thing, right? 00:29:53.760 --> 00:30:07.300 Yeah, I think one of the great benefits that we get from AsyncIO, besides being able to have, you know, these non-blocking access to other services and stuff like that, is to be able to do stuff like WebSockets. 00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:09.380 And, you know, WebSockets are fun. 00:30:09.380 --> 00:30:09.980 Yeah. 00:30:10.100 --> 00:30:16.300 It's great when you're building, you know, a front-end application and you can have that bidirectional control between server and client. 00:30:16.300 --> 00:30:23.400 And the way that it's achieved right now inside of Sanic is by using another package that's called WebSockets. 00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:25.600 So, you could just do pip install WebSockets. 00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:31.800 And that gets you to the same bit of code that's running inside of Sanic. 00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:39.520 And Sanic is just basically putting on another routing layer on top of that to be able to get to your socket. 00:30:39.520 --> 00:30:40.900 Yeah, it's really cool. 00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:41.460 Really cool. 00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:48.340 Say that now, in coming next year, there may be some ideas on how we change that and make that a little bit better. 00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:53.800 And being able to handle different deployment strategies. 00:30:53.800 --> 00:31:02.380 And by that, I mean using ASGI, which is sort of the asynchronous response to WSGI. 00:31:02.380 --> 00:31:03.100 Right. 00:31:03.100 --> 00:31:16.420 WSGI is the web service gateway interface, which is how most things like Flask, Pyramid, Django, etc., plug into larger web servers like MicroWSGI or Gunicorn or something, right? 00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:24.680 But the fundamental problem with that API is it's a single function call per request that has no asynchronous concepts around it, right? 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:25.260 Exactly. 00:31:25.260 --> 00:31:31.720 So, you're not really going to be able to run an asynchronous application off of WSGI. 00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:44.400 And this is a problem that the guys building Django channels, I believe, were the first ones that came up with the ASGI implementation or specification, whatever you want to call it. 00:31:44.660 --> 00:31:51.320 We're looking into it to adopting that, which will open up a greater deployment strategy for Sanic. 00:31:51.320 --> 00:31:56.640 Yeah, that would be really nice if there was the WSGI equivalent for all these different frameworks. 00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:00.840 That's really one of the key missing things to unlock a lot of it. 00:32:00.840 --> 00:32:05.440 But since you brought it up, maybe we should talk a little bit about deployment on this. 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:14.680 So, what is different or how does deployment for regular web servers and web apps change if you're deploying something based on Sanic versus something on Flask? 00:32:14.740 --> 00:32:24.880 The biggest change is you could just do Python app.py and just run your application straight from inside Sanic. 00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:30.260 And Sanic has its own way to be able to operate as a web server and to interact. 00:32:30.260 --> 00:32:34.160 And so, you could just do that and you don't have to do anything more. 00:32:34.580 --> 00:32:44.100 There is some other deployment strategies where you could use Gunicorn and there's a worker layer that sort of enables Gunicorn to be able to run Sanic. 00:32:44.100 --> 00:32:46.340 So, we've got that in the documentation. 00:32:46.340 --> 00:32:48.100 So, you could do that. 00:32:48.620 --> 00:32:59.860 I think the best way to do it, and my personally preferred way right now, is to just allow Sanic to handle its own handle itself and create Docker containers. 00:32:59.860 --> 00:33:05.080 And the Docker container's job is to run Python.py, Python app.py. 00:33:05.080 --> 00:33:15.120 And then stick in front of that something like Nginx or another load balancer that handles the incoming request and just kind of spits out my traffic to one of my services. 00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:16.560 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:18.340 You don't have to do it that way. 00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:19.820 Yeah, sure. 00:33:19.820 --> 00:33:28.360 Would you set it up as like a system daemon type thing, system control, and like a service unit to run the Sanic part? 00:33:28.360 --> 00:33:29.300 Or do you just do that? 00:33:29.300 --> 00:33:33.660 Like, if you're using Docker containers, maybe it's just you start the container and it does its thing. 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:34.820 Yeah, you could do that. 00:33:34.820 --> 00:33:38.680 And this is, again, this is my own personal preference bleeding in here. 00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:42.300 But Docker is such a widely popular tool now. 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:55.120 It makes it so easy to deploy and to take something from development on my machine and to stick it up on a staging server and then eventually stick it into production. 00:33:55.540 --> 00:33:58.020 I find Docker to be a very useful tool for that. 00:33:58.020 --> 00:34:03.380 And, you know, one step further is to use Kubernetes to sort of manage that whole process. 00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:06.260 But that may be a little bit too complex for a lot of people. 00:34:06.260 --> 00:34:10.860 And I don't necessarily want to say that that's the way that you have to do it. 00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:11.180 Right. 00:34:11.600 --> 00:34:21.080 And regardless of whether you're using Docker or you're just running it in a separate process, you still probably want something like Nginx, which is going to handle SSL. 00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:24.180 It's going to handle delegating back to that server. 00:34:24.180 --> 00:34:28.580 It's going to handle, would you serve the static files through there still through Nginx? 00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.420 Yeah, absolutely. 00:34:29.420 --> 00:34:31.360 I think that's another good point to make. 00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:38.640 And while you certainly could handle static files through Sanic, and Sanic does give you an API to be able to do that. 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:43.860 Your best bet most of the time is going to be just let Nginx handle your static files. 00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:46.980 You're going to get the most performance by just serving those directly. 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:49.960 You don't really need to let Python handle static stuff. 00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:52.060 You don't let that handle all your dynamic content. 00:34:52.060 --> 00:34:53.040 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:54.680 That's the way I run my stuff as well. 00:34:54.680 --> 00:34:56.480 Let's talk about testing. 00:34:56.480 --> 00:35:01.880 So testing regular web apps is pretty straightforward. 00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:07.440 I mean, it still requires some tricks to know how to like create a dummy request and things like that. 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.820 But then you just call it, and then you get the answer. 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:12.940 And then you assert things about the answer. 00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:15.740 But with Sanic, what does testing look like? 00:35:15.740 --> 00:35:20.040 Because typically testing async I/O stuff means there has to be an event loop. 00:35:20.040 --> 00:35:20.780 It has to be running. 00:35:20.780 --> 00:35:22.100 You've got to wait for it to be done. 00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:23.400 There's like extra stuff. 00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:25.720 What does testing one of these web apps look like? 00:35:25.780 --> 00:35:28.160 Yeah, it's certainly not an easy thing to do. 00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:37.900 And I think this is sort of one of those other areas where maybe you've checked off all those boxes and you've kind of are now onto the stage of how do I start testing this stuff? 00:35:37.900 --> 00:35:41.620 And I would say don't try to invent the wheel yourself. 00:35:41.620 --> 00:35:43.280 Go see what else is already out there. 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.780 And personally, I like to use pytest. 00:35:46.780 --> 00:35:58.700 There's a great plugin for Sanic called pytest Sanic, which solves a lot of these problems and makes it pretty similar to what you're used to doing with pytest, where you're creating your application. 00:36:00.160 --> 00:36:06.740 And it's a little bit different because you've got your async and await keywords in there, but it's going to handle creating the loop for you. 00:36:06.740 --> 00:36:11.460 And so you can just kind of go about your process the way you would expect. 00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:12.860 Yeah, it's pretty interesting. 00:36:12.860 --> 00:36:13.860 Some of the stuff that you do. 00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:17.780 So like your test method might be an async method, right? 00:36:17.780 --> 00:36:24.780 Async def test something, not just a regular test method, but the pytest Sanic knows how to run it and it's all good, right? 00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:25.020 Yeah. 00:36:25.020 --> 00:36:27.820 And there's also an asyncio pytest. 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:34.120 I forget the name of the package that does sort of the same thing, just not in the confines of Sanic itself. 00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:37.720 But that's also definitely something to look out for. 00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:40.380 So the answer is, yeah, it's definitely possible. 00:36:40.380 --> 00:36:44.720 There's a little bit more complexity to it, but take a look to see what other people are doing. 00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:48.400 And I think it's a piece of the puzzle that's been solved. 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:51.160 So may as well go take a look to see how other people have done it. 00:36:51.160 --> 00:36:54.220 And especially since there's a pytest plugin, it's pretty easy. 00:36:54.700 --> 00:37:01.340 So that was one of maybe, I don't know if you call it an extension exactly, but it's one of the things that is sort of in the category of extensions. 00:37:01.340 --> 00:37:08.440 But there's actually a whole bunch of different extensions, right? 00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:09.220 So that's kind of a lot of different cores and all that. 00:37:09.220 --> 00:37:12.300 Do you want to give us a quick flyover of some of the more important extensions? 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:12.960 Sure. 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:22.060 I think probably the most important extension that's out there is the pytest Sanic extension because it gives you the extension ability. 00:37:22.580 --> 00:37:37.100 Another one that is hugely popular is Sanic OpenAPI, which adds, I don't know if you're familiar with OpenAPI or not, but it's a specification for how do you define your API endpoints. 00:37:37.100 --> 00:37:45.860 And with this plugin, you basically just add some more decorators around your methods and it's going to create the output for you. 00:37:45.860 --> 00:37:57.980 That's going to meet your specification of what kind of methods does it accept and what kind of intake variables might need to get passed into the method. 00:37:57.980 --> 00:37:59.880 And eventually, what's the output? 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.360 What does your endpoint give you? 00:38:01.460 --> 00:38:02.000 Yeah, that's really cool. 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:09.320 So it defines the API and gives you some Swagger UI back as well so you can actually see what methods are available and things like that, right? 00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:09.860 Exactly. 00:38:09.860 --> 00:38:21.580 Another one, and this one's going to be a little bit of a self-plug because it's my extension, is an authentication Sanic JWT, which adds web tokens. 00:38:21.580 --> 00:38:38.520 And if you do pip install Sanic JWT, it gives you a blueprint that has all the authentication endpoints that you would need to log in, to create a token, to verify a token, to pass refresh tokens and all that kind of fun stuff. 00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:39.380 That's a good one. 00:38:39.380 --> 00:38:43.040 I see that it has Jinja 2 as one of the extensions. 00:38:43.040 --> 00:38:47.040 What is the default template engine in Sanic? 00:38:47.040 --> 00:38:54.280 Well, there isn't one, and this is sort of where it's a micro framework where it's not going to make a lot of the decisions for you. 00:38:54.280 --> 00:38:59.600 And so you can kind of create your own stack. 00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:15.060 And personally, I think while you can serve static files, I think sort of the place where frameworks like Sanic really shine is using them to power web APIs and web sockets and stuff like that. 00:39:15.060 --> 00:39:18.680 Personally, I don't use it to handle HTML well. 00:39:18.680 --> 00:39:22.740 It certainly is capable of providing HTML responses. 00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:28.820 Sanic is going to say, let's you figure out what's the best way that you want to be able to template those. 00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:32.220 And if it's Jinja 2, there's a plugin that you can use for that. 00:39:32.220 --> 00:39:32.940 Yeah, that makes sense. 00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:36.680 Are there any other template languages that you can use? 00:39:36.680 --> 00:39:39.760 You can use Django ones, you can use Chameleon, Mako? 00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.180 I don't know how it would work with Django ones. 00:39:42.180 --> 00:39:46.040 Anything that's going to work in Python, you can use that. 00:39:46.040 --> 00:39:51.700 Because at the end of the day, what you need to do to respond with Sanic is you just need to be able to pass it a string. 00:39:51.700 --> 00:39:55.200 So use whatever template engine you want. 00:39:55.200 --> 00:39:55.480 I see. 00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:04.860 So you would basically just create the thing and tell it to here's your template file, here's your model data, render it, and just have Sanic return the HTML. 00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:06.420 So you kind of plug in that layer. 00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:07.140 Exactly. 00:40:07.140 --> 00:40:09.280 So you could use whatever you needed to there. 00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:10.260 It would work. 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:18.120 Yeah, it seems like one of the first things you'd want to do is create your own little decorator that takes a template file and then just automatically does that. 00:40:18.120 --> 00:40:21.440 You just wrap up your view methods, right? 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.240 Yeah, don't do that more than twice. 00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:29.200 Creating decorators is a huge thing, I think, in frameworks like Sanic and Flask and stuff like that. 00:40:29.200 --> 00:40:36.740 And there is some information in tutorials on how you would go about that when you realize that you're going to need something like that. 00:40:36.740 --> 00:40:37.020 Right. 00:40:37.020 --> 00:40:37.960 Yeah, very, very cool. 00:40:38.420 --> 00:40:50.420 So one of the things that happened not too long ago, maybe a year ago, is Sanic moved from being this framework created by, you said Michael Hill? 00:40:50.420 --> 00:40:50.960 Yes. 00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:56.040 Yeah, created by Michael Hill and has now become more of a community project. 00:40:56.040 --> 00:41:00.780 Do you want to talk about that whole process, what that means for Sanic and why it was done? 00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:01.160 Sure. 00:41:01.160 --> 00:41:04.640 So I kind of got involved with Sanic. 00:41:04.640 --> 00:41:09.640 First, I got it mainly because it was something that I wanted to just check out. 00:41:09.640 --> 00:41:16.300 You know, one of the things I like to do in my spare time is see what else is out there that I don't know and try playing with it. 00:41:16.700 --> 00:41:23.000 And Sanic was kind of how I started playing around with these async enabled frameworks. 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:26.800 I sort of realized that there was a missing hole. 00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:31.140 And this is before I was involved as one of the maintainers of the Sanic project. 00:41:31.560 --> 00:41:33.960 I saw where there was a hole for authentication. 00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.440 So I created the JWT extension. 00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:43.160 And then when I started using it for work, I sat down and I said to myself, OK, this is a pretty new framework. 00:41:43.160 --> 00:41:51.740 You know, one of the risks with something that's new is how long is it going to last and how long is people going to be maintaining it? 00:41:51.740 --> 00:41:59.460 That is really one of the concerns with any of the one of the frameworks that you mentioned at the beginning is they're also new, but web apps are often long lived, right? 00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:06.800 You don't want to build your thing on, you know, if you'd built it on Jepranta, you'd be really bummed that contributions stopped, you know, a year ago. 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:07.560 Yeah, absolutely. 00:42:07.560 --> 00:42:14.260 When I go to GitHub to find some package, that's one of the first things I do is look to see how active it's been. 00:42:14.260 --> 00:42:24.340 Because if I'm going to integrate this into something that I'm putting into production, if it stops getting maintained, then I need to step up to the plate and start maintaining it if something breaks. 00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:24.760 Yeah. 00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:26.180 And do you want to do that, right? 00:42:26.180 --> 00:42:27.740 You don't want to do that for everything out there. 00:42:27.740 --> 00:42:29.940 Sometimes you just want to use something. 00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:30.600 Exactly. 00:42:30.600 --> 00:42:37.960 And when I was making that decision with Sanic, I said to myself, okay, you know, what happens if these guys stop maintaining it? 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:49.640 And I looked at it and I said, okay, you know, I mean, if that happens, then, you know, I realize this is a risk and maybe I'll get myself, maybe then I'll just take it out of my own wing and just fork it and do what I need to with it. 00:42:50.500 --> 00:43:03.780 And lo and behold, you know, some time goes by and I start noticing that all these issues are piling up and there's pull requests that are piling up and, you know, the release cycle is a little bit slower than it had been at first. 00:43:03.780 --> 00:43:11.840 And I started talking with some other people that are, that I know that are users of Sanic and I noticed that they also had the same concerns. 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:15.620 And so we're saying, okay, well, maybe this is a long-lived project or not. 00:43:15.620 --> 00:43:30.440 And so I started talking with these people and I started talking with the guys that were the maintainers of the project and everybody that had used the package and had worked on it, you know, really liked it and was enjoying doing it and nobody wanted to see it just go away. 00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:38.060 So we said, okay, well, then let's take this package that was on GitHub as a repository for just a single user. 00:43:38.060 --> 00:43:45.540 Let's turn it into a community package, a community organization and invite whoever wants to be involved. 00:43:45.540 --> 00:43:50.440 Let's get everybody together and start working on this together. 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:51.820 Let's make decisions together. 00:43:51.820 --> 00:43:56.340 Let's not have just one person hold the key to this. 00:43:56.940 --> 00:44:03.040 And, you know, we're still in this process of figuring out what that means to be a community run organization. 00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:11.920 And it's not like we have this answered yet, but, you know, we've been doing this for, I guess, about, I don't know, five or six months now. 00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.920 And it's sort of been a fun ride so far. 00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:17.280 And I think we're headed in a good direction. 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:18.580 It looks like a good move in it. 00:44:18.580 --> 00:44:20.340 You definitely have some folks involved there. 00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:22.580 So I think it's very positive. 00:44:22.580 --> 00:44:26.840 I also just checked out Vibora and it looks like it's stalled out as well. 00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:34.240 So it's looking more and more like Sanic is the one that still has the momentum of the ones that we've been talking about. 00:44:34.240 --> 00:44:35.940 I don't want to be the one to make that claim, but. 00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:38.340 No, you let me say it. 00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:42.580 But, I mean, I think Hort is still doing really well and AIoHDP as well. 00:44:42.580 --> 00:44:49.060 But like some of the other ones that came out at the same time, I kind of feel like, I don't know, they just, they had a lot of activity, but not so much. 00:44:49.060 --> 00:45:00.020 So it's good that you're taking these steps to try to solidify that base and, you know, not make it just dependent upon one person's interest in pursuing this sort of tweak of the Flask API, right? 00:45:00.020 --> 00:45:00.580 Yeah, absolutely. 00:45:00.580 --> 00:45:12.240 And that's, we've sort of tried to make sure that there's some people that are involved, that have been involved in the project for, since it's beginning early days, and some people that are just getting involved now. 00:45:12.240 --> 00:45:16.380 And we try to have a mix of as many voices as we can. 00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:21.020 So we have consistency and we're not breaking any backwards compatibility issues. 00:45:21.020 --> 00:45:29.400 But I'm pretty excited because there definitely has been a good response and been a lot of community action in pushing this project. 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:30.460 Yeah, that's great. 00:45:30.460 --> 00:45:33.100 So what are some of the plans going forward? 00:45:33.100 --> 00:45:39.740 You guys decided to issue the zero versioning style and go with something different for versioning, right? 00:45:39.740 --> 00:45:42.540 The current version is 0.8.3. 00:45:42.540 --> 00:45:46.900 And that's going to be the last zero versioned release. 00:45:46.900 --> 00:45:52.640 And coming up in about another month, we're going to switch over to calendar versioning. 00:45:52.640 --> 00:45:56.220 And the idea behind this is we've got a fast framework. 00:45:56.220 --> 00:45:59.980 Let's make our development cycles, you know, somewhat fast as well. 00:46:00.080 --> 00:46:01.940 So we can respond to things quickly. 00:46:01.940 --> 00:46:06.400 And so we decided to go with four releases per year. 00:46:06.400 --> 00:46:17.300 We're going to do one in March, one in June, September and December with the idea that the December release will be a long-term support release, an LTS release. 00:46:17.300 --> 00:46:17.920 That's pretty cool. 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:22.820 I think it makes things more clear because a lot of folks have been involved in open source for a long time. 00:46:22.820 --> 00:46:25.200 They see 0.12 and they're like, oh, great, that's fine. 00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:33.760 But many people, especially coming from like the enterprise-y space and the commercial space, they see 0.something and they're like, oh, it's not ready yet. 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:34.980 It's in some kind of beta or something. 00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:46.460 That's sort of what we're trying to achieve with moving to a community organization and moving to having an LTS release is to make this known that this is a safe project to rely upon. 00:46:46.460 --> 00:46:47.820 And you can use this in production. 00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:51.160 It's not going anywhere and it's going to perform. 00:46:51.160 --> 00:46:51.780 That's cool. 00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:54.640 What does a version number look like in calendar versioning? 00:46:54.640 --> 00:46:58.460 Is it like 2018 dot or like, yeah, what are you doing there? 00:46:58.460 --> 00:46:59.340 You could do that. 00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:01.700 What we're going to do is it's going to be 18.12. 00:47:01.700 --> 00:47:04.320 So that's going to be the next release. 00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:08.880 And then after that, it'll be 19.3, 19.6, 19.9. 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:09.220 Yeah. 00:47:09.220 --> 00:47:12.740 And then like little patches and stuff would be like dot something on the end. 00:47:12.740 --> 00:47:13.200 Exactly. 00:47:13.200 --> 00:47:19.340 So if we need to have inside that release cycle, then yeah, it'll be 18.12.1. 00:47:19.340 --> 00:47:28.700 I imagine that those type of patches, you'll see more of those with the LTS releases because the idea behind that is we're going to lock in the API. 00:47:28.700 --> 00:47:32.260 We're going to lock in the feature set in December of 2018. 00:47:32.600 --> 00:47:35.660 And that's going to be on its own branch inside of GitHub. 00:47:36.080 --> 00:47:47.180 And for the next year, if we see any security issues or bugs, we're going to go and we're going to fix those and we're going to push those out to the 18.12 package. 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:54.360 But while we're doing that, we may move on to additional feature sets inside 19.3 and moving forward. 00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:54.700 Yeah. 00:47:54.700 --> 00:47:57.160 That wouldn't necessarily get put into that 18.12. 00:47:57.160 --> 00:47:57.880 That's really cool. 00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:08.240 And you know, one thing I definitely like about this is I can open up a requirements file or I can do a pip list on a virtual environment or something and just look and know, oh, that library is a year and a half old. 00:48:08.640 --> 00:48:10.920 Or that library is pretty new. 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:16.400 Like if I do, you know, a pip list and I see requests is that I don't even know what it's at. 00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:20.920 Like, let's say I see pyramid at 1.8.7. 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:22.320 Right. 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:23.700 Like that's out of date. 00:48:23.700 --> 00:48:25.120 It should be 1.9. 00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:25.540 That's something. 00:48:25.660 --> 00:48:27.580 But how out of date, right? 00:48:27.580 --> 00:48:29.400 Like, was it just updated? 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:30.860 You need to know the package. 00:48:30.860 --> 00:48:40.020 You need to be involved in the community and have an understanding of when all those releases are happening to know, you know, whether your version is out of date and by how much. 00:48:40.020 --> 00:48:42.140 With your model, it's super clear. 00:48:42.140 --> 00:48:43.240 Oh, that's six months old. 00:48:43.240 --> 00:48:44.660 We should probably consider upgrading that. 00:48:44.660 --> 00:48:44.900 Yeah. 00:48:44.900 --> 00:48:46.540 I mean, I don't want to say it's our model. 00:48:46.540 --> 00:48:48.300 Like it's a thing that's out there. 00:48:48.300 --> 00:48:48.760 Sorry, the model. 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:49.800 Let me rephrase it. 00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:50.740 The model you've adopted. 00:48:50.740 --> 00:48:51.540 It lets me see that. 00:48:51.540 --> 00:48:52.500 Yeah, that's really nice. 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:55.880 And I think pip is now on to that model as well. 00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:56.780 And there's some other. 00:48:56.780 --> 00:49:04.180 I've noticed a lot more repositories using calendar versioning, I'd say, in the last year than I had, you know, before that. 00:49:04.180 --> 00:49:04.500 It's cool. 00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:05.580 Well, I'm definitely a fan. 00:49:05.580 --> 00:49:15.720 Now, one of the things I saw looking through the documentation is you have on the various issues and items in GitHub is you have help wanted labels. 00:49:15.720 --> 00:49:22.300 And it sounds like you're looking for folks who would be willing to be contributors and participate, right? 00:49:22.300 --> 00:49:25.800 That's sort of the goal is this is a community built project. 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:29.360 You know, let's get everybody involved that wants to be. 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:43.480 And one of the things that, you know, I'm not the only one doing this, but one of the things that I do, you know, when I check GitHub and I see that there are new issues open, I try to, you know, make an assessment, you know, of how difficult would it be to implement this feature? 00:49:43.620 --> 00:49:46.900 Or, you know, is this a bug or whatever it is? 00:49:46.900 --> 00:49:51.240 And use GitHub to provide the context. 00:49:51.240 --> 00:49:56.940 If I have a project and I want to help out and say, you know, I don't really know, you know, where can my efforts go? 00:49:56.940 --> 00:50:02.860 It's a little bit easier for me to see, okay, well, you know, this is an easy task for me to handle. 00:50:02.860 --> 00:50:08.780 So let me try this one first, as opposed to trying to add an ASGI or something like that, which would be more difficult. 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:12.620 Yeah, the community is still working on that one as a whole. 00:50:12.620 --> 00:50:13.840 That's cool. 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:22.020 So, but if people are keen to do it, there's all sorts of stuff I'm sure they could pick up, like even triaging issues, working on documentation tutorials. 00:50:22.020 --> 00:50:24.700 There's being a relatively new web framework. 00:50:24.700 --> 00:50:30.560 There's probably not as hard or solidified as say something like Django to make changes. 00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:31.080 Absolutely. 00:50:31.080 --> 00:50:45.700 And I think, you know, the best thing there is if you have interest in it, the best way to get involved is to just go into GitHub or we have, we have, we just opened up a community forum using Discourse. 00:50:45.700 --> 00:50:52.240 And just look to see what else, what the conversations are and just start responding, you know, just put in some, some thoughts. 00:50:52.240 --> 00:50:58.180 You know, there's a conversation about something and, you know, something that strikes your interest, you know, put in your own thoughts. 00:50:58.680 --> 00:51:03.780 And it's sort of a good way to just get yourself involved in, in your face known. 00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:12.940 So you don't even, you don't necessarily need to get involved by making a pull request and, you know, solving, you know, you know, bug issue number one, two, three, four. 00:51:12.940 --> 00:51:20.700 It's, I think just making your presence known is, is a great way to contribute yourself in your, in your, in your thoughts. 00:51:20.700 --> 00:51:21.580 Yeah, it's cool. 00:51:21.580 --> 00:51:27.740 A lot of people are looking to get into their first open source project for one reason or another. 00:51:27.740 --> 00:51:30.220 And I always like to highlight opportunities to do that. 00:51:30.220 --> 00:51:31.620 So it sounds like this is a good one. 00:51:31.620 --> 00:51:37.200 Anyone's looking to contribute, you know, we're definitely, you know, we'd love to have help with documentation and testing. 00:51:37.200 --> 00:51:45.700 And I think one of the big things right now would be examples is, you know, I used Sanic to solve this problem and this is how I did it. 00:51:45.700 --> 00:51:46.660 That kind of stuff. 00:51:46.660 --> 00:51:46.840 Yeah. 00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:47.980 Cool. 00:51:47.980 --> 00:51:48.820 That sounds really great. 00:51:49.200 --> 00:51:51.940 So I guess we're probably about out of time. 00:51:51.940 --> 00:51:53.820 So we should leave it there for Sanic. 00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:57.780 Let me ask you the two questions I always ask my guests at the end of the show. 00:51:57.780 --> 00:52:01.580 If you're going to work on Sanic or any other Python code, what editor do you use? 00:52:01.660 --> 00:52:02.800 I'm a sublime text guy. 00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:09.380 I really like when I can open up my code editor and just see code and I don't like to have too many distractions. 00:52:09.380 --> 00:52:11.060 So I like simplicity. 00:52:11.060 --> 00:52:11.960 Yeah, that's cool. 00:52:12.620 --> 00:52:17.960 And notable package on PyPI, not necessarily the most popular, but you're like, oh, you should know about this. 00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:20.460 And I'll go and throw a pip install Sanic out there. 00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:26.080 So you don't have to say that one, but maybe something else like maybe an extension or something or async ORM. 00:52:26.080 --> 00:52:35.640 I'll leave, maybe I'll leave all that stuff for the listeners to go and explore and find, you know, maybe one of those awesome async lists or something. 00:52:35.640 --> 00:52:38.560 Maybe someone wants to create an awesome Sanic list. 00:52:38.560 --> 00:52:40.500 Maybe that's a good contribution. 00:52:40.500 --> 00:52:41.200 That would be cool. 00:52:41.980 --> 00:52:49.520 How about, but as another notable package, I've got another GUI that I don't think you guys have necessarily covered yet. 00:52:49.520 --> 00:52:53.700 We've been on a real kick, but we haven't hit them all, I'm sure. 00:52:53.700 --> 00:52:56.700 Well, how about pip install eel? 00:52:56.700 --> 00:53:01.360 I think that's another one that you can, it's a fun little project, which is. 00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:02.180 Eel's a good one. 00:53:02.180 --> 00:53:08.220 The idea is somewhat similar to what Electron is doing, but doing it with Python instead. 00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:08.560 Yeah. 00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:19.040 So Electron JS allows you to take and create what looks like a desktop application, but it's actually, you know, a hidden Chrome running HTML defined front end. 00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:23.980 Maybe it's something like Ember or Angular and then a Node JS backend for much of the logic. 00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:24.280 Right. 00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:28.400 And so eel does basically that, but for Python, right? 00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:28.840 Exactly. 00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:39.120 And one of the benefits besides giving you the entire Python ecosystem is it's a little bit less intensive than say Electron might be. 00:53:39.120 --> 00:53:40.500 It's also a little simpler, isn't it? 00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:41.720 If I remember looking through. 00:53:41.720 --> 00:53:42.160 Yeah. 00:53:42.160 --> 00:53:43.580 It's a fun, it's a fun little project. 00:53:43.580 --> 00:53:43.900 Nice. 00:53:43.900 --> 00:53:44.060 Yeah. 00:53:44.060 --> 00:53:44.960 People should check that out. 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:45.700 All right. 00:53:45.700 --> 00:53:45.980 Awesome. 00:53:46.140 --> 00:53:47.360 So final call to action. 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.540 People are excited about Sanic and Async Web frameworks. 00:53:50.540 --> 00:53:51.920 What would you say to them? 00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:57.220 What I'd like to most stress is get yourself involved in open source work however you can. 00:53:57.600 --> 00:54:08.780 I think especially for people that are maybe newer developers and just getting started out, open source is a great way to get experience and to get exposure and most importantly, start learning. 00:54:08.780 --> 00:54:14.280 And so I'd say come say hi to us over in the Sanic community. 00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:15.140 We'd love to have you. 00:54:15.140 --> 00:54:21.020 But if not, go find another community that you're passionate about and make yourself known. 00:54:21.020 --> 00:54:25.580 And this whole web framework, Async Web framework in Python, you think it's time? 00:54:25.580 --> 00:54:26.300 It's time to come? 00:54:26.500 --> 00:54:35.140 Don't quote me on this, but I believe eventually Django's planning on adding Async several release sites, a couple years, two years down the low. 00:54:35.140 --> 00:54:36.640 And it's coming. 00:54:36.640 --> 00:54:38.120 I mean, it's definitely the way to go. 00:54:38.120 --> 00:54:39.940 So the future is now. 00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:40.400 Yeah. 00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:46.420 You spoke about Django channels and I think it was Andrew Godin that wrote this. 00:54:46.420 --> 00:54:46.920 Right. 00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:54.680 Put together a cool thing called a Django Async roadmap that lays out their plans for basically doing something similar. 00:54:54.680 --> 00:54:55.660 It's a really great article. 00:54:55.860 --> 00:54:59.040 I'll throw it in the show notes for people who are on the Django side of the fence. 00:54:59.040 --> 00:55:00.780 But yeah, definitely. 00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:01.760 I agree with you. 00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:03.480 And thanks for being on the show, Adam. 00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:04.460 It was great to talk with you. 00:55:04.460 --> 00:55:05.760 And best of luck on Sanic. 00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:06.360 It's a cool project. 00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:07.500 Thank you very much. 00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:07.860 You bet. 00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:08.080 Bye. 00:55:08.080 --> 00:55:08.480 Take care. 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.060 This has been another episode of Talk Python To Me. 00:55:12.260 --> 00:55:14.700 The guest on this episode was Adam Hopkins. 00:55:14.700 --> 00:55:18.220 And it's been brought to you by us over at Talk Python Training. 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:20.500 Want to level up your Python? 00:55:20.500 --> 00:55:25.300 If you're just getting started, try my Python Jumpstart by Building 10 Apps course. 00:55:25.300 --> 00:55:33.440 Or if you're looking for something more advanced, check out our new Async course that digs into all the different types of Async programming you can do in Python. 00:55:33.660 --> 00:55:38.120 And of course, if you're interested in more than one of these, be sure to check out our Everything Bundle. 00:55:38.120 --> 00:55:40.000 It's like a subscription that never expires. 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.640 Be sure to subscribe to the show. 00:55:42.640 --> 00:55:45.060 Open your favorite podcatcher and search for Python. 00:55:45.060 --> 00:55:46.280 We should be right at the top. 00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:55.260 You can also find the iTunes feed at /itunes, the Google Play feed at /play, and the direct RSS feed at /rss on talkpython.fm. 00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:57.360 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. 00:55:57.360 --> 00:55:58.860 Thanks so much for listening. 00:55:58.860 --> 00:55:59.920 I really appreciate it. 00:55:59.920 --> 00:56:01.660 Now get out there and write some Python code. 00:56:01.660 --> 00:56:01.840 Thank you. 00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:21.700 Thank you. 00:56:21.700 --> 00:56:51.680 Thank you.